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Jeffrey S. Brooks
10th November 2011, 11:49 PM
Blending How to

I have been blending waste oils with gasoline for nearly 5 years, since 1-1-2007, on a Chevy G-20 van with a 6.2L diesel engine in it. I find my engine runs better on a waste oil blend that includes petrol at 20% or above.

My method is: 

1) I just blend gasoline (petrol) with waste oil. Alcohol content in that gasoline (petrol) does not seem to cause any problems with my blending. However, I do not agitate my blend at all. I have found that all one has to do is pour gasoline (petrol) and waste oil into the same tank and in 1 minute they will be a uniform solution with no agitation required. And, I blend at 20%, and sometimes as high as 35%.

2) I have found that just letting a WVO fuel blend settle for 24 hours eliminates about 99% of the sludge. WMO is a lot dirtier, so I have found it requires about 3 days of settling.

3) I use an old compressor tank for blending, which has domed ends, so I turned it on end and installed valves at both ends, which has 2" NPT plugs. I removed the plugs and installed a 1" valve on the bottom for draining the sludge. I put a 2" T at the top of the tank, and above that a 2" ball valve, then a fuel tank cap above that. On the side of the T I plumbed a fuel transfer pump to fill my tank from barrels of waste oils and solvents.

4) After 24 hours of settling (for WVO blends, 3 days for WMO blends) I drain the sludge, then I push the oil through two 2” y-traps with 40, then 80 mesh screens in them, then into a single 20" 1-micron Pentek bag filter.

5) I use compressed air as my "pump" to push the oil through my filtration system, and my filtration system is a very simpler design. The 2" y-traps only cost $55 and they have a drain plug in them, which I replaced with ball valves so that I can easily drain my y-traps after each batch of 20-gallons (80L) of fuel I make. The 20" 1-micron Pentek bag filter cost $150. I modified it for back flushing, which did not cost anything, just some time to make an inner porous bag basket. It means I have not had to replace my processing filter all year, and there is no reason why I will ever have to replace it.

4) Since I need gasoline (petrol) to blend with waste oil to make fuel, then I use clean gasoline (petrol) to back-flush my entire processing system, which means I never have to replace a filter. I then take the dirty gasoline and blend it with the waste oil and let them settle for 24 hours for the next batch.

5) The issue of cetane rating and BTU levels is bogus. The BTU value of waste oil is 10% greater than diesel fuel, while the BTU value of gasoline (petrol) is 10% less than diesel fuel. This means if we were going to look at BTU values alone, then we could blend gasoline (petrol) with waste oil at 50% and have the same BTU value as D-2. Cetane verses octane and lubricity are the same issues.

Tony From West Oz
11th November 2011, 10:10 PM
Cetane verses octane and lubricity are the same issues.
Can you please explain how you came to this conclusion?

As far as I have been able to determine, cetane and octane have no relationship with lubricity of the fuel.
eg, 2 stroke fuel has a high octane with low cetane but relatively high lubricity
Diesel fuel has high cetane with low lubricity and low octane,
Petrol has low cetane, high octane and very low lubricity
Kerosine has low octane, high cetane and very low lubricty

Each of these are combinations of petroleum distillates, for their stated purpose and have the characteristics required for that purpose.

I look forward to your response.

Tony

Jeffrey S. Brooks
12th November 2011, 12:40 AM
Can you please explain how you came to this conclusion?...TonyHi Tony, no I am not associating lubricity or viscosity with cetane or octane. My point is cetane value is irrelevant when it comes to blending. The real problem is waste oils tend to retard ignition; whereas, solvents tend to advance ignition, thus a blender should take these properties into mind when producing a useable blend. When the blend is right is when ignition of the fuel in the cylinder closely matches petroleum diesel, which is what the auto manufacturer has used as their design standard. This means the timing of the engine will not have to be tampered with if the fuel is correcting blended, and it also means cetane fuel busters will not be necessary either.

And, if we take into account energy content of the blend, then lubricity or viscosity of the source oil is again irrelevant; however, waste oils have more energy content than petroleum diesel fuel; whereas, solvents to make waste oil diesel fuel blends have less energy content than diesel fuel; however, when blended together the blend ends up with about the same energy content of petroleum diesel fuel.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
16th November 2011, 02:16 AM
Here is a photo of my mobile blending systems from which I make 20-gallon batches of waste oil blended diesel fuel:
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j411/jhananda/Bio-fuels/processor433.jpg
Here is a list of parts and suppliers I used for building my blending system:

1 ea. Pentek PBH-420 20" bag filter housing $150
Pentek Bag Filter Housings and Bags
Pentek Bag Filter Housings and Bags (http://www.bigbrandwater.com/ambagfihoand.html)

2 ea. Pentek BP-420-1
Bag Filter 1-micron
BP-420-1 (20")
Item#: 155384-03
POLYPROPYLENE FELT
BAGS
http://www.home-water-purifiers-and-filters.com/pentek-BP-bag-filter.\ (http://www.home-water-purifiers-and-filters.com/pentek-BP-bag-filter.%5C)
php
BP-420-1 (20") (http://www.bigbrandwater.com/155384-03.html)

2 ea. viton o-rings
Pentek Viton O-ring #241 for #10 & #20 Big Blue Housings
Regularly: $10.95 On Sale!: $8.87
big brand water filters
Pentek O-Rings for Slimline and Big Blue Water Filter Housings (http://www.bigbrandwater.com/orings.html)

1 ea. 2" PP Y STRAINER WITH 120 MESH SS SCREEN
$45.65
Part# LS200-120
y-trap with a 120-mesh screen in it
Banjo Valves and Fittings
Banjo PP (http://www.banjovalves.com/pp-y-strainers.aspx?page=2)

You will also want various 1" quick-cam fittings male and female
Banjo Blk PP (http://www.banjovalves.com/Blk-PP.aspx)

Here is another Banjo dealer I have used
Fuel Transfer Pumps, Gas Station Supplies, Fuel Nozzles, Transfer Tanks | John M Ellsworth Co Inc (http://www.jmesales.com/CategoryMap.aspx)

Jeffrey S. Brooks
16th November 2011, 02:19 AM
Alternative Diesel Fuels research instrumentation
Scientific instruments for blending alternative diesel fuels research

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJqR3MDAUYg

Here are the links for the laboratory equipment I purchased to help me classify my blends:

I found the VI-3320 Gardco #0 Mini Ford Dip Viscosity Cup cost $185.00, and worked great.
Gardco :: Standard Ford, Ford Dip, and Mini Ford Viscosity Cups (http://www.gardco.com/pages/viscosity/vi/ford_cups.cfm)

I still find the #1 and #2 viscups are very useful for testing the oils before blending. The Gardco cups come with replaceable orifices, so that one could purchase one cup and 3 orifices, which would save about $260.

Traceable laboratory thermocouple, which is quite cheap and available from novatech, the same people I got the hydrometers and
Control Company Traceable® Long-Stem Digital (°F) (°C) Thermometer 4052 (http://www.novatech-usa.com/Products/Digital-Traceable-Thermometers/4052)

Plastic lab-ware I purchased: 1L, 500ML and 250ML graduated cylinders; however, if I were to do it over again, then I would just get the 500ML graduated cylinder.
Laboratory Plasticware | Lab Plasticware (http://www.novatech-usa.com/Products/Plasticware-Laboratory)

I purchased these hyrdometers:
0.650 to 0.750 Specific Gravity Hydrometer
0.750 to 0.800 Specific Gravity Hydrometer
0.800 to 0.850 Specific Gravity Hydrometer
0.850 to 0.900 Specific Gravity Hydrometer, ASTM 85H
0.800 to 0.850 Specific Gravity Hydrometer, ASTM 85H (http://www.novatech-usa.com/Products/Specific-Gravity-Hydrometers/6785H)

Jeffrey S. Brooks
16th November 2011, 02:23 AM
Useful links:
http://www.biofuelsforum.com/blending_forum/10206-research_reports_alternative_blend_diesel_fuels.ht ml#post55103
http://www.biofuelsforum.com/blending_forum/10207-wvo_wmo_fuel_incompatibilities.html#post55104
http://www.biofuelsforum.com/blending_forum/9959-blending_system_parts_supplies.html
http://www.biofuelsforum.com/blending_forum/10205-alternative_diesel_fuels_research_instrumentation. html#post55102

tillyfromparadise
4th December 2011, 11:26 AM
Hi Jeffrey,
What testing did you perform to verify that after 1 minute of pouring the petrol on top of the WVO with no agitation it is a uniform solution.



I have found that all one has to do is pour gasoline (petrol) and waste oil into the same tank and in 1 minute they will be a uniform solution with no agitation required.
Following your advice in this post about mixing, when I attempted to replicate your results from the mixing petrol with biodiesel video you posted I just poured the petrol in on top of the biodiesel and set it down with no agitation.

The following morning when I turned the first test bottle upside down I could clearly see the refraction swirling distortions you see when dissimilar liquids are initially mixing together.
The same thing occurred with the two other test batches.
Clearly the petrol and Biodiesel had NOT mixed over a period of 10 hours or more.

I have just now performed a test using WVO with about 15% petrol poured on top.
After the initial sloshing around the petrol and WVO seperated out forming two distinct layers with the petrol on top.
It is now about 45 minutes later and there is still two distinct layers in the bottle.
The demarkation line between the petrol and WVO is very sharp.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
12th December 2011, 11:12 PM
Hi Jeffrey,
What testing did you perform to verify that after 1 minute of pouring the petrol on top of the WVO with no agitation it is a uniform solution.



Following your advice in this post about mixing, when I attempted to replicate your results from the mixing petrol with biodiesel video you posted I just poured the petrol in on top of the biodiesel and set it down with no agitation.

The following morning when I turned the first test bottle upside down I could clearly see the refraction swirling distortions you see when dissimilar liquids are initially mixing together.
The same thing occurred with the two other test batches.
Clearly the petrol and Biodiesel had NOT mixed over a period of 10 hours or more.

I have just now performed a test using WVO with about 15% petrol poured on top.
After the initial sloshing around the petrol and WVO seperated out forming two distinct layers with the petrol on top.
It is now about 45 minutes later and there is still two distinct layers in the bottle.
The demarkation line between the petrol and WVO is very sharp.
If your observations are correct, then it would be unwise to blend petroleum distillates with any biodiesel. However, people are doing it all over the world and not reporting that biodiesel does not blend with petroleum distillates, so your findings are inconsistent with everyone else'.

tillyfromparadise
13th December 2011, 04:15 AM
Hi Jeffrey,
If your observations are correct, then it would be unwise to blend petroleum distillates with any biodiesel. However, people are doing it all over the world and not reporting that biodiesel does not blend with petroleum distillates, so your findings are inconsistent with everyone else'.I have done a bit more research on this and it is normal for 2 liquids that are miscible but of different densities to form seperate layers in a container.
Your video on blending petrol with biodiesel clearly shows this has occured in the sight tube. You even show and point out the petrol on top of the biodiesel in your sight tube.
They actually need to be physically mixed together.

One of my test batches of biodiesel sat for over a week with a layer of petrol clearly sitting on top of the biodiesel.
Last night I finally mixed them together.

tillyfromparadise
13th December 2011, 04:20 PM
Continuation of my last post

Hi Jeffrey,
To determine whether petrol will actually fully mix with WMO in one minute just by pouring the petrol on top of the oil as you say, I performed a test.
I poured some WMO into a jar.
I poured some petrol on top of the WMO
When the liquids settled down there was clearly a layer of petrol sitting on top of a layer of WMO

Fast Forward 10 hours.
There is still clearly a layer of petrol sitting on top of the layer of WMO.
However, you can see a slight intermingling of the petrol and WMO at the boundry layer.
I would say that winthin 6 months or a year at the most the petrol and WMO will be fairly well mixed

I suggest that before posting something as the truth,you should actually perform some well thought out experiments to confirm what you are saying is accurate.
Then I would not need to waste time checking whether what you are saying is correct or not.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
14th December 2011, 12:01 AM
The following videos should provide ample evidence that many solvents will go readily into solution with waste vegetable oil, including petrol. Further, about 6 years ago I blended petrol with waste vegetable oil and left it on the shelf in my friend's shop. We examined it a year later and found there was no separation. Therefore these videos should also provide ample evidence that Tilly is an unreliable observer, and is only intent upon disrupting dialog on the blending forum here. I suggest that the moderators of this forum consider removing Tilly from this forum.

Blending gasoline with vegetable oil to make diesel fuel I
Blending gasoline with vegetable oil to make diesel fuel I - YouTube (http://youtu.be/W6NDLC67ROY)

Blending lacquer thinner with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Diesel Fuel (WOBDF)
Blending lacquer thinner with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Diesel Fuel (WOBDF) - YouTube (http://youtu.be/XbopU_Xo3mM)

Blending MEK with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel (WOBDF)
MEK Blend - YouTube (http://youtu.be/ZyD0-oFeQYo)

Blending Turpentine with vegetable oil to make waste oil blend diesel fuel
Blending Turpentine with vegetable oil to make diesel fuel I - YouTube (http://youtu.be/GnUsbeVsSew)

Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
Blending Toluol (Toluene) with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel - YouTube (http://youtu.be/4QnXI_PYvhA)

Blending Xylol (xylene) with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
Blending Xylol with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmf_rFU7v4E)

Blending acetone with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
Blending acetone with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Pqpo4SrVi6A)

Blending Lamp Oil with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
Blending Lamp Oil with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel - YouTube (http://youtu.be/h0kNrW7K0rE)

Blending Coleman Fuel with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
Blending Lamp Oil with vegetable oil to make VO Blend Diesel Fuel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqPQ-xnuMp8)

Blending Naptha with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
Blending Naptha with vegetable oil to make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel - YouTube (http://youtu.be/iJMzTZoBCu4)

Blending citrus oil with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
Blending citrus oil with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHrSeMv-ibE)

Blending Mineral Spirits with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
Blending Mineral Spirits with Vegetable Oil to Make VO Blend Diesel Fuel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5t-gMTdvPI)

Blending paint thinner with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
Blending paint thinner with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel - YouTube (http://youtu.be/e9xfsDQ8JM0)

Blending Kerosene with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel
Blending Kerosene with Vegetable Oil to Make Waste Oil Blend Diesel Fuel - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Y5JpqUDRUW0)

Captaincademan
14th December 2011, 05:33 AM
Jeffery, while you and Tilly obviousely rub each other up the wrong way in a superb fashion, Tilly's input here over the years has been very important to a lot of newbies. I joined the forum after already brewing bio for 120,000 successful km's, and yet because of blokes like Tilly, i continue to learn lots. You obviousely have considerable experience blending, but there is always room for improvement and constructive criticism. I dont think booting Tilly out would be the best option. Sure other long term productive posting members have been banned before and we all need to play nicely. Like myself, i think Tilly just wants a bit more rigour surrounding your statements and observations

tillyfromparadise
14th December 2011, 07:57 AM
Hi Jeffrey,

The following videos should provide ample evidence that many solvents will go readily into solution with waste vegetable oil, including petrol. My concern is with your statement in the first paragraph of your post that started this thread;
" I have found that all one has to do is pour gasoline (petrol) and waste oil into the same tank and in 1 minute they will be a uniform solution with no agitation required."

Because of a phenomena known as "density stratification" this is not a correct statement.
Even if two liquids are miscible, if they are of different density such as the petrol and oil, unless they are mixed together they will tend to separate out with the less dense liquid (petrol) on top of the more dense liquid (oil)

If you do have a video that clearly shows the petrol and oil forming a uniform solution in 1 minute with no agitation will you list just that video and time mark where the demonstration occurs

Tim-HJ61
14th December 2011, 12:32 PM
Jeffery, while you and Tilly obviousely rub each other up the wrong way in a superb fashion, Tilly's input here over the years has been very important to a lot of newbies. I joined the forum after already brewing bio for 120,000 successful km's, and yet because of blokes like Tilly, i continue to learn lots. You obviousely have considerable experience blending, but there is always room for improvement and constructive criticism. I dont think booting Tilly out would be the best option. Sure other long term productive posting members have been banned before and we all need to play nicely. Like myself, i think Tilly just wants a bit more rigour surrounding your statements and observations

Backing up what Captaincademan has said, this is my posting to another thread in the Blending forum:

Personalized critiques have no place in this forum.

Referring to each others backgrounds in a sarcastic way is uncalled for, and will result in infractions that include a time out or complete banning.

Contain yourselves to discussing the technical issues at hand; or be man enough to let it go.

Tim - moderator


It takes time and effort for moderators to sift through postings, to sort out the personal slights, jibes etc that make no useful contribution to the forum. If we have to do it, we are likely to be grumpy at needing to do it and will remove postings and ban users either short term or permanently. These users, who on a good day can behave and play nicely, but on a bad day seem to like to annoy others, must contain themselves.

Like I said on the other thread, stick to the technical issues at hand, or be man enough to step away. State your point that you disagree - just the once is enough - then leave it. To continue to berate and personalise is bullying and completely out of line.

Tim

Jeffrey S. Brooks
16th December 2011, 01:08 AM
Jeffery, while you and Tilly obviousely rub each other up the wrong way in a superb fashion, Tilly's input here over the years has been very important to a lot of newbies. I joined the forum after already brewing bio for 120,000 successful km's, and yet because of blokes like Tilly, i continue to learn lots. You obviousely have considerable experience blending, but there is always room for improvement and constructive criticism. I dont think booting Tilly out would be the best option. Sure other long term productive posting members have been banned before and we all need to play nicely. Like myself, i think Tilly just wants a bit more rigour surrounding your statements and observations I stand by the rigor of my research and video documentation. Just because you or Tilly do not like my data and conclusions does not mean that I have not been rigorous in my research, data collection and conclusions. The videos that I posted links to above consistently show that petrol, and many other solvents, can be blended with canola oil and become a uniform solution in about 1 minute without agitation.

Anyone is welcome to conduct the same experiments. It is all too easy to take a jar, fill it half way with vegetable oil, then top it off with petrol and watch what happens.

Non relevant inflammatory section edited out.
Tony - Moderator

tillyfromparadise
16th December 2011, 08:41 PM
Hi Jeffrey
.
Anyone is welcome to conduct the same experiments. It is all too easy to take a jar, fill it half way with vegetable oil, then top it off with petrol and watch what happens.
I Performed Four Experiments


Experiment 1
This test was using new canola oil and 50% petrol.
Due to the high cost of new canola oil it was a small test bottle.
After adding canola oil to a height of 28mm I added a similar amount of petrol.
The level of the oil was now about 20mm.
After 4 hours I turned the bottle upside down and observed the swirling refraction patterns that result when liquids of two different refractive index are first mixed together.
I then turned the bottle right side up and again observed these patterns.
After waiting 10 minutes I turned the bottle upside down and again observed these patterns.
I then shook the bottle very hard and sat it down.
After 10 minutes I again turned the bottle upside down and there were no swirling patterns.
Conclusion
The oil and petrol had not thoroughly mixed until I shook it hard 4 hours after pouring the the petrol into the bottle.

Experiment 2
This test was using 200ml WVO and 200ml petrol.
After pouring the petrol on top of the WVO I observed that the liquid in the bottom quarter of the jar was dark while the liquid in the top quarter was light. Similar to what the sight tube looked like in the video.
After 4 hours I turned the bottle upside down and observed the swirling refraction patterns that result when liquids of two different refractive index are first mixed together.
I then turned the bottle right side up and again observed these patterns.
After waiting 10 minutes I turned the bottle upside down and again observed these patterns.
I then shook the bottle very hard and sat it down.
After 10 minutes I again turned the bottle upside down and there were no swirling patterns.
Conclusion
The oil and petrol had not thoroughly mixed until I shook it hard 4 hours after pouring the the petrol into the bottle.

Experiment 3
This test was performed using 400ml WVO and 80ml petrol.
The bottle was squat and short.
After adding the petrol I could not make out any real difference in colour.
After 4 hours I turned the bottle upside down and observed the swirling refraction patterns that result when liquids of two different refractive index are first mixed together.
I then turned the bottle right side up and again observed these patterns.
After waiting 10 minutes I turned the bottle upside down and again observed these patterns.
I then shook the bottle very hard and sat it down.
After 10 minutes I again turned the bottle upside down and there were no swirling patterns.
Conclusion
The oil and petrol had not thoroughly mixed until I shook it hard 4 hours after pouring the the petrol into the bottle.

Experiment 4
This test used 400ml WVO and 80ml petrol.
The bottle was taller and thinner.
After adding the petrol to the top of the oil the liquid at the top of the bottle was clearly lighter in colour than the liquid on the bottom and remained so.
After 4 hours I turned the bottle upside down and observed the swirling refraction patterns that result when liquids of two different refractive index are first mixed together.
I then turned the bottle right side up and again observed these patterns.
After waiting 10 minutes I turned the bottle upside down and again observed these patterns.
I then shook the bottle very hard and sat it down.
After 10 minutes I again turned the bottle upside down and there were no swirling patterns.
Conclusion
The oil and petrol had not thoroughly mixed until I shook it hard 4 hours after pouring the the petrol into the bottle.

Final conclusion
If you pour petrol on top of vegetable oil and do not agitate it, they will not be mixed thoroughly together within 4 hours

Tony From West Oz
16th December 2011, 09:06 PM
Tilly,
Your tests 3 and 4
This test used 400ml WVO and 80ml/ 20% petrol. Was the 80mL/20% petrol 80mL of a 80:20 WVO:ULP mix? It is not clear in your description.

Regards,
Tony

tillyfromparadise
16th December 2011, 09:29 PM
Hi Tony,
they were 400ml WVO and 80ml petrol
I have changed it

tillyfromparadise
18th December 2011, 01:27 PM
The fifth test
As well as the four tests listed above i performed a fifth test.
This used 400ml WVO and 80ml petrol.
I adding the petrol to the WVO

After 4 hours
I turned the bottle upsidedown and observed the swirling patterns made when two liquids of different refractive index are first mixed together.
I then turned the bottle right side up and sit the bottle down.

24 hour point
I turned the bottle upsidedown and observed the swirling patterns made when two liquids of different refractive index are first mixed together.
I then turned the bottle right side up and sit the bottle down.

48 hour point
I turned the bottle upsidedown and observed the swirling patterns made when two liquids of different refractive index are first mixed together.
I then turned the bottle right side up and sit the bottle down.

After 48 hours the WVO and petrol are not thoroughly mixed

Jeffrey S. Brooks
27th December 2011, 11:54 PM
Now, I have a number of problems with the observations of the above report. First of all, I have actually done numerous blends over the 8 years of my research, and when I blend petrol with WVO I have noticed the two fluids will go into solution within a minute without agitation, and I have left a sample on the shelf for two years and there was no evidence of an emulsion layer caused by the separation of the two fluids. I have provided up thread here 7 videos of blends showing this effect. So, I have to conclude that either petrol in Australia is radically different that petrol in the rest of the world, or
Moderator Edit - Removed Inflammatory comment. Posters MUST refrain from running down other individuals or the forum itself


So, I recommend anyone who is interested in blending to conduct this all too simple experiment for yourself. Just take a clean glass jar, fill it half way with clean new vegetable oil, then place the jar in a place where you can easily see light passing through the jar, then carefully pour half again as much petrol on top of the vegetable oil, and do not stir the blend. Just watch it. What you are likely to see at first are diffraction patterns, like little rainbows, swirling in the fluid, but after about a minute you should no longer see any differences in the fluid. Then, put a lid on the jar, and leave it for a day, then come back the next day to see if you can determine any differences in the fluid that would suggest anything had floated to the top of settled to the bottom.

Moderator Edit - Removed Inflammatory comment

tillyfromparadise
28th December 2011, 03:47 PM
Hi Jeffrey,

Now, I have a number of problems with the observations of the above report. First of all, I have actually done numerous blends over the 8 years of my research, and when I blend petrol with WVO I have noticed the two fluids will go into solution within a minute without agitation,What test did you perform that clearly showed that when you poured petrol into WVO they become a uniform solution in about 1 minute without agitation?
I have performed at least 5 tests to date that clearly shows that when you pour petrol on top of WVO they do not become a uniform solution in one minute without agitation.
Actually I even re-checked test #5 at the 96 hour mark and when I turned the jar over I could still see swirling refraction patterns.
I then shook it hard for a minute or two and left it sit for 10 minutes. When I then turned it over again there were no refraction patterns.




I have left a sample on the shelf for two years and there was no evidence of an emulsion layer caused by the separation of the two fluids.We are not talking about emulsion layers or even whether they will eventually separate out into layers.




I have provided up thread here 7 videos of blends showing this effect.I have looked at your videos and I can not see where you have demonstrated the two liquids have thoroughly mixed in about 1 minute with no agitation.
Can you tell me which video(s) and the time mark where you have very clearly demonstrated the oil and blending agent are thoroughly mixed without any agitation in about 1 minute.




So, I have to conclude that either petrol in Australia is radically different that petrol in the rest of the world, or
Jusr plain old ULP/RUG without ethanol that I use in the mower.



So, I recommend anyone who is interested in blending to conduct this all too simple experiment for yourself. Just take a clean glass jar, fill it half way with clean new vegetable oil, then place the jar in a place where you can easily see light passing through the jar, then carefully pour half again as much petrol on top of the vegetable oil, and do not stir the blend.There is no need to use new vegetable oil, just use some clear WVO
I also take it you mean to add half as much petrol to the veg oil. You can not then pour half again as much petrol in to a jar that is already half full.




Just watch it. What you are likely to see at first are diffraction patterns, like little rainbows, swirling in the fluid, but after about a minute you should no longer see any differences in the fluid.You will probably not see any more swirling patterns after a minute because the liquid has pretty much stopped moving. That does not mean they are thoroughly mixed after 1 minute.




Then, put a lid on the jar, and leave it for a day, then come back the next day to see if you can determine any differences in the fluid that would suggest anything had floated to the top of settled to the bottom. We are not talking about layers floating on the top or bottom.
We are talking about being thoroughly mixed after 1 minute with no agitation.
All you need to do is tip the jar over and you will see the swirling refraction patterns.

I have already performed the test.
See my above post.

Tim-HJ61
28th December 2011, 05:03 PM
This thread is not going anywhere useful.

There are different opinions.
Both sides of the argument have presented their views several times.
No new information is forthcoming.

The thread is closed.

And because there has been unwillingness to find common ground, this thread does not present the necessary unified opinion necessary to be a useful sticky for newcomers to blending. I will also 'unsticky it'.

Tim
Moderator