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PeterAC
8th December 2011, 09:09 AM
Hi all,

I have not got around to a two tank conversion yet so I have been blending.

I have been blending 90%WVO and 10%ULP (plus 30mls of white spirits to every 15lt of WVO) into the tank not before. I have noticed a build up of clearish gum at the filler neck. Car has been going fine but I want to know about this gum. Do you think it is in the tank and any idea what it is? The white spirits readily dissolved a sample of the gum I scooped up on my finger.


Regards

Peter<><

PeterAC
8th December 2011, 10:20 AM
Some more relevant info is: I fill manually with a spout that goes past the filler neck. So the gum I assume would be residue from sloshing fuel when driving?

craigcurtin
8th December 2011, 09:02 PM
Peter,

I think based on lots of peoples results have shown that in tank blending is not a good idea. I think JSB has done some extensive testing on the dropouts/lacquers etc that result from this - i think you might be better served blending outside the tank and allowing it to settle.

Craig

Jeffrey S. Brooks
9th December 2011, 04:25 AM
Peter,

I think based on lots of peoples results have shown that in tank blending is not a good idea. I think JSB has done some extensive testing on the dropouts/lacquers etc that result from this - i think you might be better served blending outside the tank and allowing it to settle.

CraigI agree with Craig, I have found blending needs to be followed by a settling period to allow incompatible components in the blend to settle out. I have found 24 hours eliminates most of the precipitates in WVO blends. WMO blends have a lot more that needs to precipitate out, and those precipitates are nearly the same mass as the blend, so WMO blends require about 3 days of settling.

PeterAC
9th December 2011, 08:19 AM
How might the gum be cleaned out without removing anything?

Jeffrey S. Brooks
10th December 2011, 03:50 AM
Most of the time petrol removes most of the blend-slop that ends up on my vehicle. If petrol does not remove it, then lacquer thinner will.

PeterAC
3rd January 2012, 06:54 PM
Just making an observation. I havenot driven the 300D as a daily lately. I am struggling to find much spare time to change much of anything therfore I am still blending intank.

What I have noticed with the spout is the gum has thickened up around the neck and down about 60mm. From 60mm down it is clean. My plastic funnel filler neck when I fill the tank goes well past this point so no petrol poured in will clean this by direct contact. I usually put petrol mid fill of oil.

If sloshing is causing the gum build up why does it only happen at the opening and not further down?

I know in tank blending is not best practice and will change this eventually but I am after thoughts.

How do people blend outside tank. ie what type of container, how do you seperate the precipitate from fuel, what do you do with the precipitate?

For me these are important questions even though they may be obvious for others.

Cheers

Peter<><

tillyfromparadise
5th January 2012, 02:22 PM
Actually,
I started to see this gum/build up on the filler tube when I strted blending 2/3 biodiesel with 1/3 VO and I did the blending in the filter drum.

This build-up is the reason I stopped blending and went back to B100.

craigcurtin
5th January 2012, 04:15 PM
Peter,

To blend out of the tank your best best is to get a plastic 200 litre drum.

Place a take off about 300-400mm from the bottom and another take off either in the bottom or very low down in the front (and tilt the drum slightly forward)

Place your oil into the drum and the appropriate ratio of ULP and mix via pump etc - then allow to settle.

After a minimum of 24 hours (longer is better), then decant your oil that you require from the higher filler pipe - all of the bad stuff will have settled below this level.

You can take the stuff at the bottom out through the bottom outlet - run this back through a bunnings bag which will catch any large dropouts.

If you want to go the extra distance you could run it back through a 1 micron filter

If you are confident this does not have any water in it then put it back into your next blend i.e. back into the barrel.

regards
Craig

PeterAC
6th January 2012, 01:00 AM
Thanks for the info Craig and Tilly.

In my 300D the pick up fuel line is on the bottom of the fuel tank, it has a strainer. At the rate the gum is depositing on the filler neck I would assume the strainer would be clogged by now but it isn't. The fuel lines on the Merc are stock and are small in diameter. Why has it not clogged up.

I would like to run my tank down and put in a plumber arthroscope to see what the deposits are like. Where can you rent borrow them.

craigcurtin
7th January 2012, 05:03 AM
You can buy a USB fibre optic camera/gooseneck camera for cheap on the Internet

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/USB-Borescope-Endoscope-Inspection-Camera-5M-Waterproof-/280740235170?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item415d6c07a2#ht_4581wt_1396

Not sure why your pickup has not clogged yet - Tony is the expert on all things Merc so he may have some insight on this

Craig

Tony From West Oz
7th January 2012, 02:49 PM
If your fuel filters have not blocked regularly, then there is no gum in the body of the tank. I have a similar deposit on the neck of my 300D fuel tank, it does not cause me any concerns or filter blockages.

If you suspect the tank strainer is blocked, swap the hoses to the metal fuel lines in the engine bay. The return line goes to the bottom of the fuel tank, so swapping will put the strainer in the return line, eliminating this from the equation.

Regards,
Tony

PeterAC
7th January 2012, 10:33 PM
Yes, I change my filters every 5000km. The last one I changed late, a little over 5500km and it did start to clog. If its the gum I don't know but I will monitor it. I will be changing the o rings in my delivery lines in the next couple of days so I will have a view of the top part of the IP. It will be interesting to see if there is anything there.

Good idea about the return line swap, I'll keep that in mind.

So if the gum on your filler neck is from straight veg and not a blend this suggests the deposit may not be just from from precipitate due to ULP blending.

PeterAC
7th January 2012, 10:42 PM
Thanks Craig for the link.

Tony From West Oz
8th January 2012, 12:29 AM
I have a turbo boost gauge on the fuel line going to the IP, installed in place of the ashtray. I change fuel filters if I cannot maintain a positive fuel pressure under heavy acceleration when the engine is hot. I have not needed to change the Fatmobile main fuel filter (Veggie oil) in around 5 years, or the start tank filter (CAV) in the same period. The prefilter gets checked and swapped whenever it needs it (transparent case allows me to see its condition). I then clean out the removed prefilter with a weak KOH solution in water, rinse with clean water and allow to dry in my shed until needed. I always have a spare in the car, in a resealable bag to prevent and oil from the removed filter spilling in the boot.

Changing fuel filters at 5000K is way too often.
Changing oil & oil filters at 5000K is good practice.

Regards,
Tony

whathe
13th January 2012, 10:46 AM
Can you blend 80% WVO 20% ULD and then can you put in your fuel tank the rest diesel from the bowser will they all mix okay can any body help

tillyfromparadise
13th January 2012, 06:50 PM
Hi whathe,
I assume you mean ULP instead of ULD.
Testing I have recently performed suggests that mixing in the tank in a very "Hit and Miss" affair.
For best results I would do the mixing external to the fuel tank

PeterAC
15th January 2012, 12:46 AM
ULP= UnLeadedPetrol

Yes whathe, you can mix in the ratio you are talking about 80WVO: 20ULP and put it in the fuel tank, and then you can add diesel to it from the bowser and it will mix all together. This thread is about the junk falling out by the joining of ULP and WVO, therefore we don't want this to clog up the diesel fuel system from tank to injectors. Best practice would be to blend your ULP and WVO outside tank till junk settles to bottm of your mixing container and draw off the top the good fuel.
Only issue is I don't know if further adding the diesel from bowser will cause further fallout of junk to occur from the fuel blend already in the tank that has had fallout happen from blending outside the tank. I don't know if Tilly or anyone else has tested this? It possibly raises another grey area.

So if you are able to blend the 3 types of fuel and let settle before putting in the tank do so. If you are driving only with the WVO/ULP in the tank and are running low on the WVO/ULP blend and wish to top up with diesel then do so as they will mix and in the short term there should not be any problems of clogging up the fuel system. I did this today!

tillyfromparadise
15th January 2012, 11:18 AM
Hi Peter AC


Originally posted by Peter AC:

This thread is about the junk falling out by the joining of ULP and WVO,


Actually this thread is about the gum build-up that forms at the top of the filler neck when blending WVO. In my case I never used ULP in the blend, only 2/3 biodiesel and 1/3 WVO, and I still observed the gum build-up on my filler pipe.



Best practice would be to blend your ULP and WVO outside tank till junk settles to bottm of your mixing container and draw off the top the good fuel.It would seem to me that best practice would be to settle the WVO for a long time then filter through a 1 micron filter while blending which is what I did.



Only issue is I don't know if further adding the diesel from bowser will cause further fallout of junk to occur from the fuel blend already in the tank that has had fallout happen from blending outside the tank. I don't know if Tilly or anyone else has tested this? It possibly raises another grey area.All the testing I did showed that if you were using clean, filtered WVO and your equipment is clean there is NO fallout at any time.



So if you are able to blend the 3 types of fuel and let settle before putting in the tank do so. If you are driving only with the WVO/ULP in the tank and are running low on the WVO/ULP blend and wish to top up with diesel then do so as they will mix and in the short term there should not be any problems of clogging up the fuel system. I did this today! Indeed, you can add petro- diesel to your blend at any time. It does not matter whether they mix together or not.
HOWEVER, there is a very long thread on the infopop forum about the possibilities of waxes settling out of the Diesel when it is mixed with WVO. It was a long time ago and I do not recall all the nuances of the discussion but if you are interested I will look up the discussion and post a link.

craigcurtin
15th January 2012, 01:17 PM
if you add 20&#37; ULP to 80%WVO you will alreayd have very close to the viscosity of Diesel - just wasting money adding diesel to it then.

Also watch our for vapour locks with that high a percentage of WVO - dependant on your heat exchanger and how hot you get the blend.

I never had problems in my surf at this mix but when i tried it in my Suburban - it got so hot that i was getitng vapour locks with a 10% mix

Craig