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limoman
21st December 2013, 01:08 PM
Hi all Merry Xmas
Well I am now running the patrol on a 10 to 1 mix and it appears to be very good no problems at all I am only using it as my start up fuel at this stage and will continue to do this for a little longer hope everybody has a merry xmas and let the veggie oil gods be good to you
Kevin limoman

SUZUDDIS
21st December 2013, 02:36 PM
Kevin

Merry christmas. Forgive my ignorance 10:1 is that 10 litres wvo and 1 litre diesel ?

Have you added a flat plate heat exchange too ? Sorry but I'm looking at installing a second tank for wvo and will be doing lots of research inthe new year for my Musso.

Have great Christmas

Michael

limoman
21st December 2013, 05:52 PM
Hi Michael

no its 10 litres veggie 1 litre ULP

peter1
21st December 2013, 08:33 PM
Hi Michael

no its 10 litres veggie 1 litre ULP

Hi Kevin,

I just spent a week in Taree so pretty familiar with the weather up there atm.

I was running 5% when I arrived and threw another 50L of SVO in and went up to port and back wednesday Night.
Coming back last night, I put in another 25L ( (I love being able to have a reserve of oil away from home!) and drove back. On the highway I couldn't tell much difference in performance to when I went up as the engine is on boost all the time at highway speeds anyway.

Mine started fine while I was up there running around and again this morning back in cooler temps. The Petrol content now must be about 1% if that.
I'll top it off again tomorrow and add 5% for good measure.
The next week will be a mix of short and highway runs before heading back up there in a weeks time.

Give 5% a try. I know you'll be happy with it.

cotton top
23rd December 2013, 06:25 AM
Hi Guys,
I don't want to be pedantic, but as I mentioned in another post,I did viscosity tests with svo/uvo and petrol. From memory I think that I was getting about ten seconds for 50mltrs ulp through the orrifice and about one minuit twenty secs for svo with 10% ulp at ambient temp. These tests weren't done at lab standards, but were indicative enough for what I needed.

Since the outcome was so difinitive, I'm curoius to know for what reason is 10% ulp being added? Is it viscosity, or something else that I'm missing?

Happy Christmas to all,
Rob.

tillyfromparadise
23rd December 2013, 12:06 PM
Back in the "good old days" I did lots of viscosity testing using the "World famous Dr Pepper Viscosimeter (Pat Pend). (http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=447609751&f=419605551&m=590108381)

This is the results of one series of tests.

WVO- 14min 13.72 seconds
WVO with 5% petrol- 9min 33.65 seconds
WVO with 10% petrol- 7min 24.47 seconds
Biodiesel- 2min 14 seconds

So you can see that adding 10% petrol does substantially reduce the viscosity and the inline pumps seem to be happy with it.

Tony From West Oz
23rd December 2013, 10:19 PM
Rob,
I would appreciate it if you could find your test results.
I cannot see why you would be testing the viscosity of ULP and comparing it with WVO + 10% ULP.
What I am interested in are the comparative viscosity of Diesel, WVO and WVO plus Diesel* and WVO plus ULP*.
(* at various concentrations)

Tilly has found his results for the tests he has performed and as can bve seen, a significant reduction in the viscosity of WVO (when blended with ULP) is in evidence.

Tilly, can you find the time for diesel as a reference to compare the WVO and blends with.

Thanks to you both,

Tony

tillyfromparadise
24th December 2013, 03:10 AM
Hi Tony, I do not think I ever tested a WVO diesel mix.
I did do WVO and kerosene and my original post dated 25/7/2003 (that was over 10 yers ago!) follows

"More interesting viscosity tests.

I have been thinking for sometime now about making a "Cheaper" fuel than "standard" biodiesel with refrence to both time and money.
As both my wife and daughter will be using my car from time to time, it will have to be a "User Friendly" fuel that requires no flipping of switches etc. etc.
Knowing that many people have used heated WVO for a long time now in some engines with total success, it does appear that at least the older indirect injection engines do not seem to care whether there is glycerine present or not. It seems that viscosity is the most important thing, and viscosity is most important with rotary injection pumps. Unfortunatly rotary pumps are the most prevelent ones used and what is in my Gemini.
This suggests that mixing the oil with a "Thinner" ala the 5% "White spirits" trick is the most likely answer. After long consideration and reading, I have decided that kerosineor possibly biodiesel is probably the best choice in my situation.

Viscosities were measured on the world Famous Dr Pepper Viscosimeter (http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=447609751&f=419605551&m=146601951) (Pat Pend)

VISCOSITY TESTS
Biodiesel at 23deg c:
2min 15sec

Kerosine at 23deg c:
2min 5 sec.

These are MUCH closer in viscosity than I thought they would be.

The following WVO tests were made using identical Veggie oil of unknown origin with a titration of about 2.

I tested the mixtures at both my standard test 23deg c and as I have noticed that the injectors are always warm to the touch after a five or ten minutes operation, I also checked the viscosity at what I feel is a more realistic 40deg c, especially in the summer.

100%WVO at 80deg c:
3min 16sec

90% WVO 10% Kero at 23deg c:
7min 24sec
90% WVO 10% kero at 40deg c:
4min 42sec

80% WVO 20% kero at 23deg c:
4min 59sec
80% WVO 20% kero at 40deg c:
3min 34sec

So, with these results, I am quietly confident that I will probably be able to run my car on a mix of 80%WVO/ 20%Kero or perhaps 60%WVO/ 40%biodiesel, at least in the summer.

As I presently have a large quantity of Veggie WVO which has been settling for some months, I feel that by carefully decanting the top porton of oil from each 20 litre tin, I will obtain an easily filterable WVO which I can immediatly mix with kerosine or biodiesel, let sit in the sun during the day to warm and put straight into my car's fuel tank.

Actually, the more I look at it, 30% biodiesel would probably be good enough. That would be about 7- 8 cents a litre, which would let me go visit the WA "Cartel" for about $25. Not bad.
WVO/Biodiesel tests will follow tomorrow."

EDIT

These are the biodiesel WVO tests I performed the following day.

As the SVO people seem to be have no trouble using oil that has a run-time of 3min 30sec or more, it seems that as long as you can blend a fuel whos run-time does not excede this, you should be fine.
I have been doing a bit of reading on the SVO forum and it appears a number of people have successfully used 50% biodiesel/50% WVO with the only problem being longer crank times for starting.

I did some more viscosity tests with some production biodiesel which had a 23deg c run-time of:
2min 22sec.

All further viscosimeter tests are at 40deg c which is probably a more realistic fuel temp by the time it reaches the injectors, at least in the the summertime.

To a litre of this biodiesel I added 200ml WVO for a 10:2 ratio of biodiesel to WVO for a 40deg c run-time of:
2min 18sec.

Added another 300ml WVO making a 2:1 biodiesel/WVO mix with a run-time of:
2min 30sec

Added another 500ml WVO making a 1:1 mixture with a run-time of:
3min 1sec.

Added another 500ml WVO for a 2:3 biodiesel:WVO mix with a run-time of:
3min 31sec
This is the same as 80deg c WVO.

So it looks like 60% WVO/40% biodiesel should work fine for longer driving in the summer. I will have to do more checking of temps in the car and fuel system."

cotton top
24th December 2013, 03:08 PM
Hi Tony,
Unfortunately, when I did my tests they weren't done for publication (then, or later), so sadly my memory will have to suffice, as the results were written on the bench with welder's chalk.

The question of testing the viscosity of ulp, was an error, the post should have read dino diesel.....as a datum point. Interestingly, the time for uvo+!0%ulp at 1min 20sec versus 10sec for dino, is not so far from Tilly's findings (at 2min 14sec for bio [the presumption here being that it is substatially similar to dino] and 7min24sec for uvo+10%ulp), my findings were about seven times more viscous for the blend, and tilly's about 3.5 times more viscous. this discrepancy could easily be explained by "ambient" temp at the time of day, as the dino would not have changed much with temp, but the uvo would, or perhaps bio is in fact a bit more viscous than dino.
I think the punch line in tilly's post is "inline pumps seem to be happy with it"
My current process is to pour in 40ltrs dino (or kero,...bought a 44 cheap) then 40ltrs uvo and rock the car back and forth. My rotary pump is happy with that. I get slightly better consumption figures with that than with straight dino.
Just as an aside, and off topic a bit, I had two very old lister diesels in a boat and the manual for them said that you could run them on straight kero so long as you put .25pints of engine oil per gallon in it to lubricate the pump, so clearly diesels are quite happy with kero.

Sorry I cant be a bit more precise, but I hope this helps.

Rob.

Tony From West Oz
24th December 2013, 10:14 PM
Tilly and Rob.
Thanks for the additional information, which will make for easier decisions by others (you and I have already made our decisions).

Merry Christmas,
Tony

tillyfromparadise
27th December 2013, 11:40 AM
...I had two very old lister diesels in a boat and the manual for them said that you could run them on straight kero so long as you put .25pints of engine oil per gallon in it to lubricate the pump, so clearly diesels are quite happy with kero.

Rob.Hi Rob,
Number 1 diesel is Kerosene and is routinely used as diesel fuel in the winter in colder climates.
I understand that in some truck stops in the US and Canada they have pumps for both Number 1 and Number 2 diesel so that you can buy the fuel that suits your requirements depending on whether you are travelling north or south.