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  • Coolant Heater

    Has anyone tried a system whereby you run a fuel tank heater off your existing cooling system?
    I've seen it on some Veggie site, but want to apply it to BioDiesel. Where I live gelling would be a huge concern. Also anyone running a emmersion heater in the engine block?
    Seems the logical idea to prevent gelling and relatively simple. As a spin off if you consistantly keep your engine warm it will last a lot longer as there is less expansion or contraction of the metal. A couple of companies make these Diesel Fuel/12 or 24VDC Heaters that you put on your coolant loop to preheat your engine, which would be ideal,seems a high expense but when your talking about getting 800000-1000000km before Overhaul, thats 2 or 3 refits. However the reps say the heaters won't work on Biodiesel of any strength, thing I can't figure is why not?

  • #2
    Re: Coolant Heater

    "Won't work on biodiesel" - what a crock of ****.
    It's funny how people will just dismiss stuff that they have not thought about before.
    There is absolutely no reason why they would not work on biodiesel.
    Why would pre-heating of the fuel (or the engine block) not work for biodiesel. Both biodiesel and dino diesel suffer from gelling, so heating works on both fuels. Heating the engine block is a wear issue and has nothing to do with the fuel that it runs on. I'm completely at a loss to see how these reps could state their heaters won't work on biodiesel...
    I'm guessing it's probably just that they have never heard of it and have not completed any tests themselves, therefore just default to the easiest and safest answer.
    I've seen vehicle manufacturers, mechanics and service station attendants peddle out this same old crap as well. It's amazing how people seem to know that something will not work without ever even having tried it, or even having given it a thought before opening their mouths.

    But enough of my ranting. Pre-heating the engine does sound like a good idea and like biodiesel, would make your engine last longer and encounter less wear.
    Robert.
    Site Admin.

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    • #3
      Re: Coolant Heater

      Hi all

      I was going to install a secondary fuel tank in my Hilux truck and heat it via the cooling system, I wanted about an additional 100 ltrs, there's room under the tray, also I can be a tight arse and not have to buy fuel if I go away for a long weekend, it will give a range of about 1800klm and only have to fuel up every 2-3 weeks, I was also thinking of insulating the second tank with polystyrene sheeting to hold heat over night, I live in the Blue mountains and it gets bloody cold from time to time, EG 15 c this morning...Brrrrrr...(4-1-06) and 35c yesterday.

      By all

      Fat Man

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      • #4
        Re: Coolant Heater

        Robert, those engine Pre-heaters are a small heating coil mounted on a brass, or sometimes Nylon, disc. They are fitted by removing a welch plug from the block and inserting the heating coil into the coolant side. They have a plug on the outside that you connect to a power source like a battery charger or sometimes mains supply. They keep the coolant a nice warm temp all night, keeping the coolant from freezing and possibly facilitating an easier start in the morning. By heating the coolant only, it will not un-Gel fuel in lines or even in an injector pump, unless you have a heat exchanger with coolant to fuel lines for an SVO/WVO installation.
        If you were to use the heating coils and immerse them in BD by mounting them through the walls of a fuel tank, I think you would need some sort of thermostat and cutout relay so you did not exceed the flashpoint of BD, the results could be, as they say, "Interesting".
        Mazda's Secret Service motto: "Tell 'em nothing, charge 'em double".

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        • #5
          Re: Coolant Heater

          Originally posted by Gunner
          Robert, those engine Pre-heaters are a small heating coil mounted on a brass, or sometimes Nylon, disc. They are fitted by removing a welch plug from the block and inserting the heating coil into the coolant side. They have a plug on the outside that you connect to a power source like a battery charger or sometimes mains supply. They keep the coolant a nice warm temp all night, keeping the coolant from freezing and possibly facilitating an easier start in the morning. By heating the coolant only, it will not un-Gel fuel in lines or even in an injector pump, unless you have a heat exchanger with coolant to fuel lines for an SVO/WVO installation.
          If you were to use the heating coils and immerse them in BD by mounting them through the walls of a fuel tank, I think you would need some sort of thermostat and cutout relay so you did not exceed the flashpoint of BD, the results could be, as they say, "Interesting".
          Gunner,
          The fuel in a coolant heated fuel tank will never reach the flash point of biodiesel.
          The coolant boils at around 110C.

          A "block heater" fitted to a diesel engine will improve COLD starting and will heat other parts of the engine by the radiation of the heat within the engine bay. The engine oil would not necessarily be heated much, buit would warm up quickly during the first seconds of the engine operation.
          A tank heater, Hose on Hose fuel line heater and/or heat exchanger would benefit from a pre-heated engine.

          12V or 24V block heaters would not be suited to being suplied by the vehicle battery, as the relatively high power rating of these items would rapidly discharge the battery. They should only be used from the 240VAC mains either directly, or via an adaptor (transformer).

          There are also diesel burning coolant heaters which can be plumbed into the heater circuit. These can be controlled by timer to come on at a certain time. There may be issues with these heaters when biodiesel is in the fuel tank, due to its high flash point.
          Tony From West Oz
          Vice Chairperson of WARFA
          Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 16 January 2006, 02:46 AM.
          Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

          Current Vehicles in stable:
          '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
          '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
          '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

          Previous Vehicles:
          '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
          '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
          '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
          '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
          '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
          '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
          '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
          '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
          '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

          Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
          Adding images and/or documents to your posts

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          • #6
            Re: Coolant Heater

            This is my first time posting to the forum but some stuff on "pre-heating"of engines and fuel that is straight out of some old mil manuals and a couple of things that Ive tried that seem to work.

            First up pre heating the block is good especially on diesels (feel free to ask if you want to know why but for now, trust me). The simplest thing Ive seen for limited pre heating was a pair of ceramic fan heaters installed inside the engine bay blowing onto the block. Plug it into the wall of a night and its all set. A more complicated setup involving peltier coolers (the things that make those $30 car fridges work) mounted on both sides of the block just under the joint of the head and the block and wired to a timer. At a preset time they turn on and provide some inital heat to the top of the block, good so long as you have a decent battery setup. All of these can be done without "installing" bits inside your engine

            Onto pre heating your fuel, the simplest method of preheating your fuel is to wind suitable tubing or pipe around your fuel filter and tap it into your vehicles heater supply from the cooling jacket. The next step of that would be to run a similar setup underneath the fuel tank, remeber to insulate the hoses or pipes if your tank is at the back of your vehicle.

            IF your into heavier tinkering in your engine bay try what I did to run my old series III rover running on plain filtered and dewatered WCO. Having the 2 tanks in the vehicle made this easier, the exhaust runs down the left side so i only used that tank, and let the exhaust system handle keeping the fuel up to temp. I moved the sedimentor, primary and secondary filters to the left hand side of the engine bay (less than 2 inches from the exhaust manifold) and replumbed them as required, then installed a small shield at the front of the engine behind the alternator to stop the fan from blowing on them.

            This worked well untill i hit my first winter... Initially I resorted to warming up the fuel transfer, cav pump, injector lines and the injectors with a 2400w hot air gun. My next step was getting some heater element wire (toaster wire) and some rubber mounted ceramic blocks to sit it on. By mounting the heater wire on the main fuel system components and adding a remote control I could pre heat the critical parts from bed. Dont try this if you dont have at least dual batteries and a good alternator. It would take about 25 mins of preheat to get a decent first start at about 10 degrees followed by about 20 mins of high idleto get enough heat everywhere before the thing would idle happily.

            On the side, the vehicles been pranged and I've saved and am rebuilding the engine so if anyones interested I'll post with the damage done to the fuel system which did who knows what for how long before I got it and got maybe 80-90 thou K's on it on whatever the hell i could get for free to run it on.

            Dave
            Blknight.aus
            Biofuels Forum Newbie
            Last edited by Blknight.aus; 4 August 2006, 02:53 AM.

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