Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

I would like to convert my landcruiser (80 series) to run on SVO. The only problem being I regulary do 1000k trips, and are sick of towing a trailer and refuelling along the way. (1000Ks being the distance to the parents (or in laws) and return). This leaves me with 2 options that I can think of. (landcruisers come with 2 tanks already)

1 swap rear 50 tank for 160l long range tank (and fill with UCO), relocate spare on the rear tailgate, then conversion with FPHE, extra fuel filter etc. Aprox cost $1600 (mostly being new tank and shifting spare)

2 Get elsbett conversion keep both tanks for veg oil. Kit comes with extra filters etc. Aprox cost, $1600.

So I am leaning towards the elsbett. Mine is a 1990, only one is listed for that year, which matches size, cylinders, turbo, power, voltage, injector pump manufacturer. At the end of the listing it has (nur/ only IDI) My car has written on it “direct injection”
Did Toyota do 2 heads for the 1HD-T engine for different markets (a direct and indirect injection) perhaps IDI for colder climates, or is there some other explanation I don’t know about?
Any other way of going about this conversion you may like to suggest?

[John H Member Find all posts View Profile Close John H]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

Hi Captian Echidna,

I had a couple of 80 Series 1HD-T,s direct injection, 1990 and 1994, I just pulled out the original Toyota brocher dated 6-90 and it only lists the 1HZ and the 1HD-T diesel engines options, I would think that these would be the only direct imports, however other versions may have been privately imported over the years.

I have never seen "nur" on any Toyota listing for this engine. May be someone will know what this prefix stands for?

By the way I heard a whisper that the last 4.2TD engine has been made and the next version may be a twin T V8, I hope not.

Regards
John H

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

Elsbett kits are made in Germany and sold worldwide, so I am wondering is there another market with an indirect injection head.
The "Nur" is german for only on the Elsbett site.
Why change the 4.2? Double the bank of cylinders and double the turbos just seems like double the potential problems, cost and maintainance.

[Ken Anderson Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Ken Anderson]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

I would like to convert my landcruiser (80 series) to run on SVO. The only problem being I regulary do 1000k trips, and are sick of towing a trailer and refuelling along the way. (1000Ks being the distance to the parents (or in laws) and return). This leaves me with 2 options that I can think of. (landcruisers come with 2 tanks already)

1 swap rear 50 tank for 160l long range tank (and fill with UCO), relocate spare on the rear tailgate, then conversion with FPHE, extra fuel filter etc. Aprox cost $1600 (mostly being new tank and shifting spare)

2 Get elsbett conversion keep both tanks for veg oil. Kit comes with extra filters etc. Aprox cost, $1600.

So I am leaning towards the elsbett. Mine is a 1990, only one is listed for that year, which matches size, cylinders, turbo, power, voltage, injector pump manufacturer. At the end of the listing it has (nur/ only IDI) My car has written on it “direct injection”
Did Toyota do 2 heads for the 1HD-T engine for different markets (a direct and indirect injection) perhaps IDI for colder climates, or is there some other explanation I don’t know about?
Any other way of going about this conversion you may like to suggest?

Hello
I too am looking at an Elsbett kit for my Toyota Hi Lux.

Have you made any further progress with your project?

Ken Anderson

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

What I discovered. Elsbett only do "one tank" systems for indirect injection sysyems, so I am back to 2 tanks (which was the orininal plans when I bought the car.)

I am now dealing with obscure things like 12mm fuel lines and where o I put this stuff, making brackets etc.

perusing the shop front on the net, by typing in either the engine designation or model revealed the kit I nearly could have had. the information includes power, injector pump manufacturer, size, etc.

[BrianW Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BrianW]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

The factory turbo diesel is the 1HDT and is a direct injection engine, whereas the 1HZ non-turbo is a indirect injection system. There are a bunch of aftermarket turbo kits fitted to the 1HZ engine so you need to make sure you know what you have got

I have the 1HDT and have been running the cottonseed for about 18 months now. My only complaint is that the engine gets noisy after a while, which I attribute to gumming up in the combustion chamber. This is fixed by a hard run on the diesel an the engine sounds great again.

I am about to install a simple water injection setup to alleviate this problem. This should help to remove the stuff I know is collecting but cannot hear.

Talking to a head reconditioning shop you should find that the 1HDT head is the most reliable under load since the 1HZ cannot dissipate the heat from around the exhaust port. I mention this in case you are considering going with the indirect injection head.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

Mine is the 1HDT. I have had the injector pump out twice when air has gotten into the system. Its only dont a few 100 ks since conversion, but this weekend will do 400, and will do 1000 the week after.

By the engine getting noisy, the engine sounds "harsher" in note? This is whats happeing to mine a bit at times.

What filter have you used for veg oil? I started with CAV's but found they leaked air in, so now are using a genuine toyota one.
Do you heat the oil before it goes in the engine with a heat exchanger?

[Fitian Was here Find all posts View Profile Close Fitian]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

Chris,

I doubt that option one will cost you $1600. Would you kindly give some details about this option please.

[angus@aroundyoga.com Member Find all posts View Profile Close angus@aroundyoga.com]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

Try emailing elsbett, tell them you want to buy their kit and you just have one question, then ask your question.

In my experience you stop getting replies after the second 'just one more question'.

I'd suggest you also factor in the cost of having the tanks cleaned if it's been running on diesel for a while.

Angus

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

Chris,

I doubt that option one will cost you $1600. Would you kindly give some details about this option please.

My design brief was to have a car that could do 1000ks on one tank of fuel. (all family live 500 ks one way or another) to avoid refueling, towing trailers etc.
I got the landcruiser witht the view to either do an elsbett, or a long range tank to achieve this, of course using an original tank would see it costing a few hundred, plus cleaning out the tank for veg oil.

My original costings
Tank $750, spare wheel holder (tank takes same space as spare) $750, extra filter and heater about $200. The cruiser has changeover valves already as it has 2 tanks.

What I found
I have since found spare wheel carriers cheaper, but also had the injector pump rebuilt, and found the CAV filters unsuitable (they leak air, hence the IP rebuild )

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

Try emailing elsbett, tell them you want to buy their kit and you just have one question, then ask your question.

In my experience you stop getting replies after the second 'just one more question'.

I'd suggest you also factor in the cost of having the tanks cleaned if it's been running on diesel for a while.

Angus

Yes I had that too. Unfortunatley my first question was "do you do them for landcruiser turbos with direct injection?" They replied with "is it 12 or 24 volt" (aparently they made 24 volt ones for NATO specs) I replied 12, and used my three wishes, um, I mean my questions up. I knew somone who was going to visit their factory, so he asked them, and got the reply, only indirect injection or WV's.

Yes I knew it wouldn't do the desired distance on oil from the 90L tank and I would have to clean it out (or let the veg do it for me!) so I decided right from the start to go a bigger tank. Actualy was a reason I chose a landcruiser over a patrol (twin tanks already)

[Guest Close David]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

I am about to install a simple water injection setup to alleviate this problem. This should help to remove the stuff I know is collecting but cannot hear.

Hey Brian,

I put a DIY water injection system on my car (Merc 300D) and I have to say it made a huge difference. I expected I may see some results after a week or two but it took just a few hours running time to notice a big difference. I have also played around with adding methanol to the water and this took well over 2 seconds off my 0-60Km/h time on 50% mix. Water alone took off about half a second which I really didn't expect on a non turbo car.

My engine is a 3L and I am injecting about 300CC a minute. My biggest problem with it now is I am still running the initial test tank of about 2L capacity and I run out of squirt way too fast. I have to refil the tank 2-3 times for every 25L of oil I use. Given the time and memory to get a new pump, I will look at putting a 10L or so tank somewhere convienent.

I would like to hear how you go with your water setup to see if you too experience the marked improvement I have. There is a water injection thread where a few of us have been discussing this so please let us know what you find with your vehicle.

[BrianW Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BrianW]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

The noise I am hearing is like big end bearing failure noise but it is coming from the top of my engine. Initially I thought a rebuild was on the cards, but when it disappeared I started looking for what might have caused it.

The leaking CAV filter must indicate a fault since even without the veg oil people would not want a leaking system. I have a VORMAX unit mounted in the back on the landcruiser in front of the RH taillights. To get more heat into the filter and melt the fats blocking it up I have made a piece out of copper to cause the coolant to warm up this canister top to bottom. Prior to this in the colder months I needed a long run to warm the whole filter up. Additionally I wrapped flexible hose around the first part of the VORMAX. Doing it again I would opt for a cheaper heated unit.

I have a Pollack 6 port just before the injector pump (the 3 port would not allow me to get rid of the air from filter changes etc) I also have a inline electrical heater just before the 6 port which can draw 30A to allow me to change over the vege sooner.

I think if you are going to run a two tank setup (this must almost be a requirement for the direct injection) then having your switchover valve next to the IP would be a good idea. It will allow you to purge you vege oil faster when doing end of day shutdowns.

I am only new to the forum and am not familiar with the Elsbett conversion, so I will need to become informed before commenting. As for only doing the 24V models I would suggest there is no difference. On the 80 series Landcruisers that had the 12V/24V systems the only thing that ever saw 24V was the starter motor and only during cranking. When not cranking the two batteries were once again linked in parallel. I doubt there would be any point taking the 24V feed during starting to activate anything which could otherwise be done using a 12V feed from the ignition (if required).

Angus, why is the tank cleaning required?

David, my water injection setup is going to spray the water in before the turbo using the pressure generated by the turbo and a special nozzle with water and air feed to atomise the water so not compressor turbine damage occurs. basically the first incarnation will have the nozzle, some hoses and a tank. If the noise disappears then it will stay this way. It is possible it may not go the way I want in which case I will install a pump to spray in after the intercooler so that maybe water droplets will reach the piston surface.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

The noise I am hearing is like big end bearing failure noise but it is coming from the top of my engine. Initially I thought a rebuild was on the cards, but when it disappeared I started looking for what might have caused it.

The leaking CAV filter must indicate a fault since even without the veg oil people would not want a leaking system. I have a VORMAX unit mounted in the back on the landcruiser in front of the RH taillights. To get more heat into the filter and melt the fats blocking it up I have made a piece out of copper to cause the coolant to warm up this canister top to bottom. Prior to this in the colder months I needed a long run to warm the whole filter up. Additionally I wrapped flexible hose around the first part of the VORMAX. Doing it again I would opt for a cheaper heated unit.

I have a Pollack 6 port just before the injector pump (the 3 port would not allow me to get rid of the air from filter changes etc) I also have a inline electrical heater just before the 6 port which can draw 30A to allow me to change over the vege sooner.

I think if you are going to run a two tank setup (this must almost be a requirement for the direct injection) then having your switchover valve next to the IP would be a good idea. It will allow you to purge you vege oil faster when doing end of day shutdowns.

I am only new to the forum and am not familiar with the Elsbett conversion, so I will need to become informed before commenting. As for only doing the 24V models I would suggest there is no difference. On the 80 series Landcruisers that had the 12V/24V systems the only thing that ever saw 24V was the starter motor and only during cranking. When not cranking the two batteries were once again linked in parallel. I doubt there would be any point taking the 24V feed during starting to activate anything which could otherwise be done using a 12V feed from the ignition (if required).

Angus, why is the tank cleaning required?

My engine sound is more of a change of note, rather than something that loud. I hope it stays that way!

I think the CAV filter could not flow enough veg oil, (being thicker) so would suck the seals in, and they would leak air. It was easily enough fixed, they make OK landfill I use another toyota one, so far so good...

The start of the thread was a while ago, I have completed the coversion almost (a few fidy things to go) I have used a 2 tank setup, the 90 L for diesel and the long range tank (190L) for veg oil. Definately 2 tanks.

Elsbett are a german company, and in europe landcruisers are avalible with 24V to meet army specifications. I dont belive any were exported here, but some of the parts on my car (sahara headlights) it has 24V crossed out and 12V written next to it (in the plastic moulding) to show they are not suited to 24volts. I guess if they use solenoids, and fuel pumps in their convsion, it would make a difference.

[BrianW Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BrianW]

Re: Landcruisers turbos and elsbett conversions.

Chris

My VX was a jap import with the 24V system, until I changed the starter motor to 12V and configured it to have an isolated battery. After all my reading the starter is definitely the only 24V item fitted the 80 series Landcruiser and this was for fast cranking in cold climates. Australia was the only country to get 12V systems on the turbo diesels, and I have heard of OZ delivered 100 series cruisers requiring both batteries to start, which must mean they also have 24V starters. If Toyota did a one off complete 24V system for the NATO guys then every other relay, module etc would have been changed, which for me sounds unbelievable.

I am using my factory Toyota fuel filter only for the diesel, but the housing has factory electrical heating since it was sold as a cold climate option, in addition to the seat warmers. I don't know what sort of power it requires, but it may be a useful option to track one down from an importer.

To keep the electrical side neat I have been inserting clips into the unused locations on the underbonnet fuse box. They were obtained from a Coaster bus fuse box.