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  • hello everyone - new to the forum and I have a question.

    Over the past few months I have been collecting the materials I need to start biodiesel production. Right now, I have about 200 gal of very clean WVO settling in tanks waiting for me to get finished building my Appleseed processor. I am entertaining the idea of just running the WVO and skipping the biodiesel.



    It is filtered to 50 microns.

    I have been trying to settle out the oil since November 25, 2006 and I wanted to get the forum's opinion on my settling progress so far. I have colder temperatures here (about 30 deg. F) at the moment, and was wondering if heating the oil would help settle it better, of if this is the best I should be hoping for before proceeding.

    As a side note, I am storing this WVO in a closed garage space, so I can't really de-water easily without releasing water vapor into the garage and having WVO and water moisture settling on the car inside. Do you all have any suggestions on how to de-water indoors? I was thinking I could at least heat the oil with fish tank (aquarium) heaters, but I am resistant to do that because of the released water vapor.

    Thanks for any suggestions you may have. I will be here constantly!
    Thanks!

    John Mason

  • #2
    Re: hello everyone - new to the forum and I have a question.

    John,

    One way of dewatering would be to do it in batches. Transfer a quantity to a large container, heat it on a barbeque or burner to remove any water and store it again.

    From the look of your storage containers it looks to me that the oil has settled. Is it solid on the bottom? If you are considering using WVO in your climate, you may have to heat the vehicle fuel tank and lines. BD would be a better alternative.
    George

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    • #3
      Re: hello everyone - new to the forum and I have a question.

      To dewater inside, I have bubbled compressed air through the slightly warmed oil. (the compressed are keeps it all moving which makes it quicker, and the heat does not need to be as much. Air or heat by itself does not seem anywhere near as fast. You could put the condensate out through a tube going outside, just make sure you put a water trap in the line (so water does not condense in the tube and run back into the container). It could be as simple as making the condensate go through a U and drain regularly from the bottom of the U as water will collect there (for what does not go outside).

      Check for water using the crackle test and an electric frypan. Water does not need to be ultra dry, but must not drop out and form free water, or this will cause corrosion.

      The solid stuff at the bottom could either be water, or hydrogenated oils/ tallows. Either way you will need to heat everything in your fuel system (lines, filters, tanks) or make it into biodiesel. (or keep it aside until you have the SVO sorted out)
      cheers<BR>Chris.<BR>1990 landcruiser 80, 1HD-T two tank, copper pipe HE+ 20 plate FPHE, toyota solenoids and filters. 1978 300D, elsbett one tank system.<BR>

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      • #4
        George and Chris, thanks for your feedback.

        I was thinking about making a two tank system for my vehicle wherein I could switch from Biodiesel (held in the original tank) and WVO (custom made tank) when the weather permits it.

        Has anyone done flow vs. temperature measurements to find out what quantities of fuel are reliable at certain temperatures? I know the general rules as they apply to biodiesel + diesel mixes, but what about diesel in combination with WVO?

        I can fill up with B5 from a filling station at the moment, but I wanted to add a little filtered WVO if possible so that I can get rid of this large quantity I have.

        Chris, thanks for the bubbling and heating tips. I was thinking along those lines and intended to make a vent hose to the outside, but did not think of the water trap.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: hello everyone - new to the forum and I have a question.

          If you filtered the oil on the top layer through a 5 micron filter, I'm sure that you could blend 10-20% it with your B5 without causing any problems.

          I base this on no direct experience what-so-ever, but there are many running duel tank systems with WVO in one and a start-up shut-down blend inthe other.
          George

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          • #6
            Re: hello everyone - new to the forum and I have a question.

            Hi Chris,

            Some questions re your dewatering system.
            1. What sort of compressed air system are you running in and in what sort of volume of oil? I was thinking of a larger fish tank air pump I have lying around into a 200L drum with cotton seed oil which is still liquid at my nominal winter air temps (10 C).
            2. "Slightly heated oil" = how many degrees approx? And what sort of heating unit do you use? I'm building a solar heated filtration / dewatering room, but right now I have a 240V 300 watt fish tank heater that might work.

            I suppose I'm not really after specific answers but an indication of what you're doing so that I may adapt and copy before I 'suck it and see'.

            Cheers, Michael

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            • #7
              Re: hello everyone - new to the forum and I have a question.

              I would like to add the best way of dealing with water is some education of the oil supplier. (I now supply lids for the drums so water cant collect on the top of the oil.

              The way I dewatered the oil that had water in it was as follows (I now only get dry oil, so dont do it)

              This system relied heavily on what was lying around, I did not buy anything to do this with (apart from the seccond hand pot for $2)

              I would put about 15 liters of oil in the pot, put it onto a portable electric stove. I heated it until it was difficult to touch (yeah, real scientific) fire up the compressor until the pressure relief valve blew (max pressure, no cut off) turned of the stove and compressor, and let the air slowly bubble through the oil. I think the main reason it works is it keep the oil stirred, which makes sure it all comes in contact with the air, enabling the water to go to the cooler air. (my compressor does not have a dryer) This would go on for a few hours (2-4 I guess, I left it overnight) I would hen repeat the next day. This then did not form bubbles when put on a hot hotplate.

              I guess a fish tank bubbler (and probably heater for that matter) would work. I tried air only and heat only, nether worked near as well as both.
              cheers<BR>Chris.<BR>1990 landcruiser 80, 1HD-T two tank, copper pipe HE+ 20 plate FPHE, toyota solenoids and filters. 1978 300D, elsbett one tank system.<BR>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: hello everyone - new to the forum and I have a question.

                I have heard that air and heat work together best, and this is what I will do.

                Thanks, Chris.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: hello everyone - new to the forum and I have a question.

                  Hi all
                  Just a word of warning for any one using compressed air as well as heat to dry a natural fat or oil
                  This is exactly the way the oxidative stability of an oil is established in the oil industry by deliberately destroying a sample of it
                  The steps are as follows;
                  The test calls for Bubbled air through heated oil and watch it until it starts breaking down
                  The time it takes to do that is initially slow but the rate increases exponentially as it is an autocatalytic process
                  The time it takes to start the oxidation process is then referred to as the OSI or Oil stability index
                  There is no need here to go through the whole test steps suffice to say that is the way is done
                  If any one wishes to find out it is a standard procedure as defined by the AOCS, american oil chemist's society and adopted worldwide
                  The specific test is defined under Cd 12b-92 Official Methods document
                  The Rancimat test is also used which uses the same principle but it is much quicker a search under Rancimat will give you a whole host of information
                  If you dont want to turn you hard earned waste oil int s... and free fatty acids avoid the above method for any oil you want to store for any length of time past a few days
                  If you wish to keep on doing it be aware of the pitfalls so once you have dry it use it straight away
                  It is a pitty this forum is not searched by people for information available here
                  I have posted some time back how to store WVO including the pre treatment of it as well as additives to slow down the breaking down process
                  Such is life
                  Cheers
                  Chris
                  Never give up :)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: hello everyone - new to the forum and I have a question.

                    Originally posted by Chris View Post
                    I have posted some time back how to store WVO including the pre treatment of it as well as additives to slow down the breaking down process
                    Such is life

                    Umm, yeah but the question was "how to dewater oil". I have said (and will say again) try to keep oil dry before you get it. Definately best. You can apparently mix biodiesel glycerol in to dewater, but I have not done this, and am unsure of how it goes. Have you posted on how to dry oil?
                    cheers<BR>Chris.<BR>1990 landcruiser 80, 1HD-T two tank, copper pipe HE+ 20 plate FPHE, toyota solenoids and filters. 1978 300D, elsbett one tank system.<BR>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: hello everyone - new to the forum and I have a question.

                      John
                      i use a 2 tank system running mostly on wvo. I pick up my canola oil in 20 ltr containers and do as George suggested,i pour off the top clear oil to use as wvo. The bottom 1/3 or so is maid into bio

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