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  • hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)


    Has anyone, apart from orangutans, had bad experiences with hydrogenated palm oil?
    I plan to use this WVO in a SVO system. I wouldnt buy it new due to the rainforrest issues, but making the most of the waste product seems to reduce its enviromental impact not increase it.

    The main reason I plan to use it is it’s easy to get but hard to work with.
    I tried making biodiesel with it but found it gels at 4 degrees (thanks Tony); it also gels at 4 degrees with 30% blends of diesel, ULP, Kero or Methanol.
    If I have to heat the biodiesel prior to the injectors I figure I might as well use it as SVO
    Im slowly converting my 60 series landcruiser with a 2 tank, completely heated fuel system, including tank, lines, filter and pump. I drive an hour to work so don’t mind the warm up.
    Can anyone foresee any dramas?

  • #2
    Re: hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)

    I used a similar system on my gemini I had ages ago. had a lot of heating in the tank, and a pickup which was a long tube with lots of entry holes so it wouldnt suck air from removing the liquid and leaving a solid mass with a void seperate to the pickup. (it took half an hour for the fuel guage to move though ) I used an original tank, with copper tube in the tank, and all joins on the outside! You could heat from the outside of the tank, but I am unsure how well this would work.
    I heated my changeover valves also (I used gas solenoids, they are ok in some situations, this was one)
    I found my 80 series landcruiser intolerant of air (I have had the injector pump out twice, a seal destroys itself by rubbing against the housing, and I am not the only one to expirence this) I ditched the CAV filters and used a genuine toyota one- beware they use about 3 different fuel line diameters, 8,10 and 12mm, so get the right size if you go that way. I guess wrapping the outside may be a wat to heat it, but I dont know how you would go. I used a small fuel filter and flushed it out between changes . not recomended!) perhaps if you are going to use a pump, you can circulate oil through a heater, then the pump, then the filter to get things going?
    I found a 50mm section of rubber hose was enough to "freeze" and not move. every inch needs to be heated, I used a lot of copper pipe so if one section was hot it would transefer along the length of it so there was no cold spots.

    And when you filter it, make sure you dont exceed the temp of the car when you heat the oil, otherwise you may find waxes that build up on the filter blocking it.

    There are many pitfalls along the way, but when it fires up and you are running on it it will all be worthwhile.
    cheers<BR>Chris.<BR>1990 landcruiser 80, 1HD-T two tank, copper pipe HE+ 20 plate FPHE, toyota solenoids and filters. 1978 300D, elsbett one tank system.<BR>

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)

      Hi Tom,

      Heating the lines, filter and so on will work as Chris says, but I have a suggestion for the tank. There are externally mounted sump/block heaters available on ebay that are a flexible heat pad device. These attach to the bottom of the sump to keep the oil from freezing in really cold climates (Canada comes to mind). Anyway one of these would adhere to the bottom of a fuel tank and with a timer could turn on approx 3 hours before your normal departure time. This would certainly help the in tank heater do it's thing.

      They are usually 110 volt but a transformer will fix that. They draw 300 - 800 watts (@ 110/120 volts). From memory they are thermostatically controlled to cut out at approx. 90/95 degrees F and about USD$30 - 50.

      Not elegant but it would make change over much faster and if you could find somewhere to plug in at work that would speed up change over on the return. If you really got enthusiastic, an 80 to 120 litre tank wouldn't take much to insulate so heat retention would improve.

      Exfood for thought,

      Michael
      W123 x 2
      Senior Member
      Last edited by W123 x 2; 15 February 2007, 08:32 AM. Reason: technical error

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)

        Thanks for the advice that 50mm of uninsulated/unheated pipe might cause problems.
        Thanks also on the info about tank heaters sounds safer than sticking a hair dryer down the filler pipe. Will look into it

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)

          Tom, another idea or two for heating the WVO tank in car.

          If using the original tank as the WVO unit, an infra red lamp like those sold for treating muscle aches and pains 20 years ago should work. Usually at op shops for about $5 and placed under the car angled up at the tank with a timer should work. Monitor temp of oil to get the time right.

          If using a new on-board tank for the WVO, a brewers pad under the new tank should do the trick. If a metal tank (not gal as it reacts with WVO and will clog your filters - ask Tony ) place a buffer (hard vinyl flooring works) between the tank and the heating pad, otherwise over time and with wear the element encased in the pad may contact the metal and short out.

          cheers, Michael

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)

            Part 2,

            Found a 240 volt 300 watt stainless steel double insulated fish tank heater that might work too. Had only seen glass fish tank heaters before but s/s should be good. On ebay au for $24.95 + postage. It could be easily inserted into the existing tank for WVO (disconnect filler section etc) or popped into a new WVO tank with ease.

            But a better idea IMHO is the water bed heater! Moderately flexible, thermostatically controlled and in various sizes. Under a new WVO tank and voilà! Instant on-board tank heating, just plug in to 240 volt. These heating pads are designed to heat large volumes (think king size double bed) of water and maintain it at blood temp, so should work a treat. Available at garage sales and op shops for peanuts.

            Cheers, Michael

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)

              If your tank is large such as the 190L under the back of my 80 series then planning to heat it sounds like an ongoing difficulty and with repeated heating never getting close t what is required. If it is really thick, have a large diameter pickup and heat the oil as it goes through the filter not in the tank.

              Using mains power to heat up the oil will start to become a pain as you have to do it whenever the car is cold or just drive it on diesel. This is not the best outcome. I work away 4 weeks at a time and the plan has been for my wife to be able to drive the car like a normal one while I am away.

              I tried a coolant heated head unit, but for the solidified fats the filter would continue to block up and I ended up throwing out filters which would have been fine had I manage to heat the unit up. As the fix I used 3m of 3/8 copper tube making over a dozen verticals the length of the filter which is probably 25 cm high and a ring around the top and bottom for the coolant to go in and out. Once the coolant and engine was hot so too was the oil in my filter. Depending on the distance from the injector pump maybe another heating source will be required during the cold winter starts. Maybe also a lift pump to keep things moving would be useful and take the extra load off the IP.
              Toyota Landcruiser 80 Series 1990 VX Ltd - 12HT powered- diesel for run-in period (no longer 1HDT).
              190L vege oil LR tank and 90L diesel, Vormax, 30 plate FPHE, two automated 3-way ball valves with delay to prevent mixing on purge.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)

                100% hydrogenated oil is not quite "rock solid", but play dough solid at room temp, therefore in tank heating is necesary, even if its not enough to get up to the required temp, but to get it to move at all. Of corse the problem is how to get enough of it moving before the car dies through lack of fuel. I went the carpet bombing aproach with coolant on the gemini, from there got pickier with my fuel selection, although if people everywhere are paying for used cooking oil for fuel, the person running the car on solid stuff will be the last to pay for it, because it is difficult to deal with.

                Using it however, your coolant heated filter would be a must also.

                Interesting you also used a 190L tank for your 80 series landcruiser conversion. How many Ks do you get out of it?
                cheers<BR>Chris.<BR>1990 landcruiser 80, 1HD-T two tank, copper pipe HE+ 20 plate FPHE, toyota solenoids and filters. 1978 300D, elsbett one tank system.<BR>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)

                  Thats thick oil

                  On 190L I do about 1100km on the veg before I think about topping it up again. It is not as good as I would like, but due to the cost of the vege oil I am not so focused on the economy and am working to get more power from it.

                  The big tank reduces the amount of times I have to pump my oil so I am very pleased with the setup. Unfortunately I have got this stuff forming inside the tank on the steel which is a rusty coloured scum like thick rubbery tomato skin. In the next few weeks I will drop the tank and cut two holes in the top to get my arm in there and scrap it all out. Hopefully then that will be the last of it.
                  Toyota Landcruiser 80 Series 1990 VX Ltd - 12HT powered- diesel for run-in period (no longer 1HDT).
                  190L vege oil LR tank and 90L diesel, Vormax, 30 plate FPHE, two automated 3-way ball valves with delay to prevent mixing on purge.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)

                    I like the 1100 ks, which happens to be the typical distance to the parents and back. 17L/100 is not too bad.

                    I dont like the rusty scum. How did you discover it? My merc has some white scum in the tank, but not rust colour.
                    Watch the internal baffles in the fuel tank, you may need 3 holes? (Mine has 2 internal baffles) Tapping the tank will make a different sound above the baffles. Would inspection ports as on a sailing dingy be good? they are about 5" in diameter, and unscrew. You may be able to position one where the fuel tank sender inspection hole is under the carpet in the back, which would mean at least one you could access whith the tank in the car.
                    Captain Echidna
                    Senior Member
                    Last edited by Captain Echidna; 27 February 2007, 05:50 PM. Reason: added detail
                    cheers<BR>Chris.<BR>1990 landcruiser 80, 1HD-T two tank, copper pipe HE+ 20 plate FPHE, toyota solenoids and filters. 1978 300D, elsbett one tank system.<BR>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)

                      Hi Brian,

                      What's the l/r tank made of? Is it plain steel or is it galvanised? Gal reacts badly with WVO and forms a filter clogging slime, but perhaps you knew that.

                      I get just a smidge under 1,000 km out my 130 litre tank on dino diesel in the Patrol GQ 4.2 turbo. I plan to run an 85/15 wvo/ulp blend in this soon and will be interested in the difference.

                      cheers, Michael

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: hydrogenated palm oil (KFCs)

                        It is mild steel from a mob in Adelaide.

                        I am using 100% WVO from a fish n chip shop which I pump straight from the drums into the car. I suspect one fill had some water in it and I need to open it up, clean and vent the tank for a few hot days. If it happens again I will consider painting the inside of the tank, which might have to be done to a new one.

                        Interestingly the scum is only forming in the top of the tank where it is exposed to the air. The bottom seems to be fine.

                        Maybe I should start a thread to see if it has been seen before instead of hijacking this one.
                        Toyota Landcruiser 80 Series 1990 VX Ltd - 12HT powered- diesel for run-in period (no longer 1HDT).
                        190L vege oil LR tank and 90L diesel, Vormax, 30 plate FPHE, two automated 3-way ball valves with delay to prevent mixing on purge.

                        Comment

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