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Free electron density - huh?

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  • Free electron density - huh?

    Hello all!

    I've found a web page that has a collection of random car stories that actually make for some good reading. Some are humourous and some are quite technical. There's one that I keep re-reading though. It's a short account of someone using urea mixed in nitromethane for a top fueler.

    Here's the link - These stories are true, strange and funny It's story number 9 - "The Urea Effect"

    The intended effect is to fill the combustion chamber with free electrons. The story talks about urea acting as an excitor of sorts. I've only got very basic knowledge of chemistry, so most of what is being said goes over my head. All the same, I'm fascinated by the concept and was wondering if anybody could make some sense of it. Would it be possible to do something similar I wonder? Having said that, I've bought a sample of urea (about 250 grams) from eBay and plan to mix it with the water and alcohol to inject in my water injection system. I just don't quite know how much to put in and was hoping someone might be able to advise me.

    Anybody have any ideas/interpretations/understanding about this odd topic?

  • #2
    Re: Free electron density - huh?

    I know nothing about chemistry and haven't read the article yet but, errr, ummm, isn't Urea the stuff that comes out of urine?

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    • #3
      Re: Free electron density - huh?

      Urea is a fertiliser, definately not something I would be putting in my engine. Having read some of the stories at that url, I feel it is a total load of Bull. But hey feel free to try it, and let us all know how it goes. Besides I don't mind being proven wrong

      Cheers Fantom

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      • #4
        Re: Free electron density - huh?

        Interesting story, but alas, its a complete crock. One pass in a 'fueler' requires far more fuel than the author claims to have mixed for 10 runs. A top fueler will consume between 35 and 60 litres per pass depending on how much the blower is overdriven (and they are always overdriven, you dont develop that much power by underdriving the blower). The scenario described is typical of a top fuel engine about to obliterate itself. The colours described are typical of the pistons and bore liners on the road to oblivion. The white salty crystals are typical of what you find in an aluminium fuel tank that doesnt get cleaned regularly.
        My suggestion is that it would be best not to put this stuff into your engine, nitromethane and biodiesel are fuels. Last time I looked cars dont run on urea. But hey your engine, your wallet. Let us know how you get on.
        I think they are taking the piss !
        Rgds

        Adam

        "Revolution never comes with a warning!"

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        • #5
          Re: Free electron density - huh?

          From the responses it sounds like this is a farce. I'll give it a shot anyway and post results should I see an improvement. It does make good reading though doesn't it?

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          • #6
            Re: Free electron density - huh?

            OK, I read it.

            Don't put ANY faith in it Tom, it is so full of technical errors and inaccuracies the person that wrote it was a much better fiction writer than anything else.

            This was one of my favourite stupid bits......

            "
            The burnouts tore pieces of asphalt right off the strip. These chunks were thrown far to the rear. Awed, I thought, "That thing must be making 4000 horsepower or more."

            Modern Fuelers make 8000Hp plus, and the last time I stood behind them taking Pics while doing a doing a burn out, I can assure you there were no bits of flying asphalt. On the line, they have a substance called traction compound which makes the tyre stick to the ground. When they do burnouts on the pad they spray water on there to get the wheels to spin and break traction more easily. If an 8000Hp fueler won't tear bits off the start line when the tyres are virtually glued to the track, they sure as hell won't lift the pavement when they are wetted down on a slippery pad.

            The report of the engine teardown is also farcical. I have a couple of good friends who crewed on a fueler team and have seen what happens to all the components. Valves being torched in the way this guy describes is nonsense although the fact he says piston rings were fine when they are one of the first things to be burnt also shows his complete lack of knowledge of what he is saying. You can see the rings burning in lots of fuelers as they appear as little sparks coming out the exhaust.

            Reading a few more articles there is also a lot of complete and utter fiction and total lack of technical knowledge. It may be a good read but that is what fiction is supposed to be isn't it?

            I was reading about the properties of Hydrogen peroxide recently and this would seem to have much more potential as a performance enhancer. You would have to mix it with another fuel like methanol for instance and inject it into the engine through something like the water system because I think putting it through the IP may not be a real good idea even if you can get it to mix with the fuel.

            When It comes right down to it though, there are far better and safer ways of improving your cars performance like simply fitting a bigger intercooler and dialing up the fuel flow or boost rate.
            I'm not saying other things like hydrogen peroxide won't work, it's just that to get them to work properly would take a lot of time and probably equipment to measure your results so you knew where you were going with it and what it was doing to your engine.

            I did look up urea but didn't see anything that would indicate it would enhance fuel performance. Was there some property of this substance that you were working on or just the accounts in the story? Hydrogen peroxide is supposed to release Oxygen I think it was so this would allow a chemical supercharging of sorts by allowing more fuel and the oxygen to burn it to be fed into the engine. Something like this would seem to be within the realm of getting worthwhile results...If you knew where to get the pure stuff that is

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            • #7
              Re: Free electron density - huh?

              Well, the urea arrived today. It looks like sodium hydroxide, and it's soluble in water too. I have no idea if this is going to work, but what have I got to lose? I'd be amazed if it did work judging by people's skepticism, but we'll see how we go!

              Oh, a big thank you to Robert and Cameron for Sunday!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Free electron density - huh?

                Your going to be a busy man testing all these things when you get your car back Tom!

                There are loads of people hanging out to see how your water injection goes and this pi.... Urea stuff as well. You better drive your car for a while before you try them to get a feel for it after its big rebuild so you know what is working and what is not. Better do some real accurate note taking and timeing as well!

                With the browns gas, water injection and pi,,, urea, it could be the first Pug in space!

                Can't wait to see how it all goes!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Free electron density - huh?

                  Hey David!

                  I'm itching now to get my Pug back - it feels just like Christmas time again! I'll be keeping records to the best of my ability when I fit the water injection system - I hope it makes a difference! I thought your water injection system was great too - very well done indeed. I was impressed at how much water Helga could take!

                  In regards to what we were speaking about on Sunday, has the Rutherford biodiesel plant closed down? I heard a few people saying they thought it had closed but weren't too sure.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Free electron density - huh?

                    Hey Tom,

                    I believe it was the Berkely Vale plant on the central coast that has been de commissioned for the time being rather than the Rutherford plant which is near Maitland I think.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Free electron density - huh?

                      Yes, that's right, it was ABG's 40ML Berkley Vale plant. They have mothballed it and kept their 160ML plant in QLD running.
                      Rutherford are still up and have not closed down. Rutherford was Australia's first commercial biodiesel producer and they have a production capacity of 12ML.
                      (I'm moving this thread to the "off topic" area now.)
                      Robert.
                      Site Admin.

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