Suggestion

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Oh glorious and benevolent dictator,

It seems that many on the forum (self included) are curious as to how others are "doing it". It also appears that there are certain procedures that are common to all. For example with wvo: oil collection, pre filtering, final filter and pumping, storage, heating and so on. I'm sure biodieseler's have similar common processes.

Sooooooo..... perhaps stickies where people could 'show and tell' their systems / methods for each stage would help? Could be restricted to 'stars', or those whom you deem worthy, or vetted by moderators?

Headings/threads could be; How I pre filter wvo, How I do whatever, etc, and each person could have their own evolving post/ sub heading such as 'Tony form West Oz', 'David' etc.

Anyway just a thought that would save a lot a searching for newbies and I think it would create a lot of interest.

Cheers oh omnipotent one, Michael

Post script. Lesser mortals are invited to put there two bobs worth in too

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Suggestion

While I support your concept, there are some difficulties with this idea.

1. The person posting may not have time to put all of his/her information into the thread before others start asking questions, causing fragmentation of the information.
2. The thread could be made a 'closed thread' so that only moderators and the person posting, could participate in the thread. Another option may be to make a Private Topic to a Moderator, who, once the information has been posted in full, could move the thread to the specific forum / sub forum to be made a 'sticky'.
3. I could be made a "sticky" but the responses and questions for the poster would not be closely associated with the information.
4. The poster could start another thread for the questions and replies, linked from the 'closed thread'.

There may be other issues, but for a start, this will do.

Not impossible, but more work to achieve.

IF someone has a topic and information which they feel is of benefit to current and future members of the forum, they could start a PM to me, and I can assist and liaise with Robert with a view to make it into a sticky, once complete.

Regards,
Tony

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Suggestion

I'm all up for useful stickies. Joe wrote a few many moons back which are still in the making biodiesel section.

Unfortunately, few people seem to use the rating system (), or many other systems that could make this forum a bit easier to use.

I'm happy to assist in whatever endeavours any members want to do in here to make it a better place. If there is a small core of people with enough effort we could maybe even make a decent wiki.

What I'd really like to see is some good FAQs for biodiesel written that I can put on a forum "front end" (like the one I mentioned in this thread). The idea being that there are some good, helpful bits of info that everyone can see easily right at the front and if they want to discuss them, they can go to the forum which is in the back.

I've mentioned this a few times, but I'm still waiting for people to come forward with some offers to volunteer for this.

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Suggestion

In one of my favourite american diesel engine websites (which is also a VBulletin powered site) they have a "garage section" which is expressely for people to talk about their rigs and post photos. Each thread belonged to a specific person. So maybe a new section called "The Garage" as no doubt that's where most processors would be.

And the thread if it develops should not vary too much from the persons rig. Maybe the moderators can clean up the thread to keep it looking like a FAQ. But maybe we should see what develops.

My 2 cents worth.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Suggestion

Where is the site? If it is a vb plugin, maybe I can install it.

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Re: Suggestion

I like that suggestion Joe, simple and should do the trick.

It would be a self limiting system; when most of the variations are on display the postings will thin out - no point posting something that's already there. It would also mean a lot of the "how do I..." questions would be pre empted by the various garage posts just like faq's. Particularly as a pictures tell all - well almost all. Photos and a brief description of the process is what's needed (I'd have to become photo post literate ).

One garage/workshop section for each of BD, WVO and ethanol?

Several/many posts are already done but lost in the back pages, should be a simple process for the authors to extract/copy their bits and load to a 'front end section'?

If the rating system were employed the "best" posts could gravitate to the top, admin/moderator assisted?

cheers, Michael

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Suggestion

Rob,

Diesel Place - Garage

(edited: Hey that was clever. I posted a URL and its created a hyperlink)

I think its just another room or forum.

Michael,

yeah you are right in that it would be self limiting but it would be immensely interesting and beneficial for newbies and people wanting to scale up.

I have a basic open top cone bottom system that does up to 190 litres. Up from my old 20 litre "plastic drum system". So I'm looking for ideas on making my new processor a little more efficient and a little less manual.

Also experimental systems (one where people have hacked bits and pieces together) will come to light and no doubt delight the members.

Over to you Rob. I say we float the idea for a few days and see what other feel.

Also I was curious to ask users how they browse this forum. Do people use the "New Posts" link at the top to just check the new posting from the last day or so or do you trawl through the forums. I was thinking that the "New Posts" link method kind of makes stickies useless as unless they are discovered and updated by a trawler.

Build it and they will come.

[Guest Close David]

Re: Suggestion

I am very wary of Stickies.
I have been on other sites where the stickies were so plentiful that you had to scroll down the full page to see the new stuff. I find that very annoying as a regular user to have to see the same old headings I have read many times before.

On other sites I have seen the site catered for both the newbies with the basic questions and the other part of the site dedicated to the more in depth topics as discussed by the more experienced players.
I think an " Info for newbies " section where all the basic stuff is and maybe another sticky that leads to all the "how I do it" or what people Do" things could make for a much cleaner and user friendly site and be a better idea for all concerned.
I think seperate sections are much better than clagging the top of every other section up with sticky posts.

Something I would like to see at the top of the main sections directory is a closed section/thread that answers these dam annoying and constant " Will my car run on bio?" posts.

I would also suggest that it would be a good idea if possible to put in a mechanism that forces people to go to this section and read it before and after they join the site before they can post on any topics.
I understand it is a question many newbies want to know, but it just gets repeated so many times and by people that often don't:
A. research the question at all before they ask it to find the answer themselves, and
B. having asked and had the question answered, never participate in the forums again.

I think it would be much better to have someone answer the question once and for all instead of the regulars having to field the same question a couple of times a week or more. Tony recently wrote a very informative reply which with (or without) a little modification may be all that is needed to help the people that wants to know and not bore the life out of everyone else.

It is important to get new blood in to grow and develop the site but you don't want to bore the crap out of the regulars and drive them away because of the same monotonous and fundamentally basic questions.

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Re: Suggestion

Hi David,

I agree with what you say and feel that most; would be newbies, newbies and even lurkers are time poor with many, often conflicting, demands on the only thing we all have in common. You and I are obvious exceptions I am sure many think "this is great, but I haven't the time to learn the techno speak and short hand, then trawl through all the posts." That's where the photos come in, as even faq answers demand a knowledge of the specialist vernacular (a new oxymoron?). This would normally be ok, but we are dealing with a very basic human need (1st/minority world) for transport - cheap as possible, with minimum inconvenience and environmental cost. So the KISS principle should apply.

Anyway I'm rambling a bit here but if these garage/workshop posts were contained in sub fora (a bit like the state user groups) that might work. With a tiered entry system too. You are a junior member based on the requirement to read the workshop/faq posts and are unable to post until then? How do you 'make' them read it? A bit like download licence agreements - we all read those don't we???? So the majority of questions that should result after 'graduation' would be technical /specific and targeted. Some generic 'why?' questions will continue to occur I hope.

But here's a question for you: If we make it simple and obvious for all, will too many do it and make waste oil scarce? In other words should self interest prevail over the common good? I confess to having mixed feelings about this especially with blending. Blending is so simple any idiot can do it and a lot more would jump in (possibly stuffing engines/IP's as well) leading to govt regulation I don't fancy paying fuel excise/ tax on veg oil and will probably go underground

Cheers, Michael

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Suggestion

I am also sceptical about stickies, which I never get to see unless they are new or active. I only use the "New posts" link for time efficiency reasons and dont browse the forums.

Catering for newbies is great and essential but lots of new people including my self are lazy. They want to ask a question and have it answered now. One solution to this I've seen is adding links to FAQ threads in the signature block. SO instead of answer an obvious question one just goes "Look below and follow the link." That link will take you to a thread that has just about every thing covered (which makes it massive but its there. If the newbie doesn't want to look then tough.)

There is a balance between wanting to encourage new people to ask obvious and stupid questions so they learn but they must also respect others time and do a bit of leg work them selves.

Robert, how is the search mechanism on this site. Does it have "goolgeesque" efficiecy with great hits or crappy hits. Maybe we promote searching a bit more.

In other forums (and I dunno if this is a bit harsh) they flatly say to a newbie, "follow this link to the FAQ" or "hit the web dude". Google is brilliant for biodiesel basics. I'm still doing my BD apprenticeship using google.

Its just lazy if you come in cold and expect it all layed out on a platter.

David you said that we need to improve our newbies section, I agree. The information which is here could be better organised.

Check this link for a reference GM 6.5 Reference Material & FAQ Section - Diesel Place.

And check this for a newbie welcome aka license agreement - Welcome new forum member - Diesel Place - This lays the foundation for what they will get in return for the little bit of effort they put in at the start. If someone asks a "duh" question - point them to the search engine and the newbie page (and the FAQ if you like them).

It will take a bit of effort (i can already hear the groaning - ...effort...) but this forum rocks and can be world class if we have "Basics" training package that quickly brings people up to speed. Its a win win situation. They get what they want up front and we can concentrate on "world peace".

[Guest Close David]

Re: Suggestion

H
But here's a question for you: If we make it simple and obvious for all, will too many do it and make waste oil scarce? In other words should self interest prevail over the common good?

Michael,

This is a great question and one I would like to comment on at length ( as If I comment any other way ) but due to the fact such discussion is off topic here, perhaps you would like to make it a new topic in a relevant thread? I would like to get other peoples input on this as well.

I'm certain you can't make People read anything but as already alluded to, people are lazy and this could work in out favour if set up right. If we make the basic questions easy to find, I think people will read what is in front of them rather than going through the process of signing up to another site and typing the question out. The serious people will I believe become members and the people that discover they can't use Bio in their petrol car may decide the forum is of no use to them and continue on with minimal use of the sites resources and avoiding questions of no benefit to anyone.

There will be no way to solve all the little problems but if we aim to reduce them by making the site layout as logical and easy to navigate for every need as much as possible, then I think the improvement will be well worth while.

Your point with the pictures is valid and gives me an off shoot thought. What about in the newbies section we have a glossary? Have all the jargon there with an explanation and possibly links to pictures and other explanation sources. I am thinking that any one interested could have a read through and get themselves up to speed fairly quickly as well as being able to refer back when they come across something they are not familiar with.

I have to admit I'm probably a bit different in this than other people. I try to do all my research and learning so as to minimise the demonstration of my ignorance rather than just ask dumb ass questions that annoy people because I'm too lazy to find out for myself. Yes, sometimes you don't know the terminology to know what to look for but I have found a bit of time and effort fix that situation most times and again I think a glossary would help too.

The 6.5 FAQ and new member pages look like a good model to work off with some similar help pages here.

[Sauman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sauman]

Re: Suggestion

Its a win win situation. we can concentrate on "world peace".[/quote]

Hey Joe
That word alone rocks.
Renewable Optimised Clean Knowledge for One Nation.(ROCK ON!!!)
Stop groaning Cyber Legend Nerd.How have you been man?All good I bet.
Yeah,Rock On legends and everyone here.
It is after all a collective responsibilty>>>World peace>>>Peace on earth.!!!.One day.Clean green planet.
We are working on a web portal that can be translated in 15 different langauges that promotes education living solutions and knowledge empowerment and enrichment.Peace is not a way,but the only way.
More updates as we write the script.Would interesting to throw it around and get some veiws .An immediate requirement in the schools and socio economic and cultural circles of the chaotically led great southern land.
An immediate inclusion of reality living in the twenty first century.The future in our hand scenario.So yes let share our work and evolve new ways to get there.Phew.!!!Tough job.When the going gets tough,the tough gets going.
And we can only do it together.

Cheers
Sauman

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Suggestion

Sauman, U da nerd. Noone Ever Really Dies.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Suggestion

Wow, what a busy thread!

The forum stats are significantly up at the moment, over 50,000 hits a day, I guess that is reflected in threads like these.

Looking back through the last page of posts, I realised I forgot to post the link to the "front end" that I mentioned, which I have now corrected. The "front end" is powered by another plugin and looks a bit like this. It would need a lot of work to make it nice and easy to use with all the useful bits easy to find for the newbies. Most of the work would be actually writing the information to offer to the newbies under the FAQs. There could be FAQs on forum ettiquite, acceptable usage policies that new users have to read when they sign up and of course the most useful stuff - FAQs on using biodiesel and making biodiesel.

Now, I've written up some FAQs of my own on using biodiesel here, but I do not make it, so I would need some volunteers for information on this. I would love it if some of you could get together and write up whole sections and I can plug them into place and make them easy to find.

Now, as for a photo gallery... I have toyed with this idea for a while, but never implemented it. One of the reasons was that I have dipped into my pocket (personally, no one else sponsors this site) a fair bit to get this site to where it is now and most of the gallery software costs money. The particular plugin that runs the "Diesel Place Garage" is called vBPicGallery. This software costs US$25, which is not a huge amount, but it all adds up. This software is not really appropriate anyway, as it only works with much older versions of this forum, but there are many others to choose from (here's an example of one I like).

The other reason was time. It has taken me a heap of time to get this forum to where it is. Of course all of you actually make it what it is by posting in it, but I meant all the behind the scenes stuff that makes it work. I enjoy giving it my time when I can see the results - lots of goodwill, people helping each other, strong communities being formed, an easy place for people to get help starting out, or getting advanced and generally pushing the biodiesel movement forward. However, I do sometimes get disenchanted with people taking and not offering back, or with loads of good ideas but no one wanting to volunteer to do the work.

While I am on a rant... loads of people came up with ideas and suggestions that it would be great to start a national body for users of biofuels, unlike current industry bodies that exist only for business. So, I did it, with the help of a few other committed folk. Quite a lot of my personal money and time later, we have such a thing, but so far the amount of people that have actually stepped forward and paid a measly membership fee just to show support has been pathetic. Sponsoring this forum and providing additional support and representation to you members here would be one of the things that ABU could do.

So, I'll climb down from my soapbox now and tell you that I will be more than happy to continue to help you all build something great in here, to add photo gallery software, to re-organise the site to make it easy to find essential stuff and also contribute by helping with posting info and assisting newbies whenever I can, as the rest of you also do very well. However, I need a little more help from the rest of you out there. If anyone wants to really help volunteering some time to write up some good articles/policies/faqs/whatever, or if you can't do that, then why not offer some money by at least joining the ABU? If some more of you did either of those things, I'd feel a lot more inclined to roll up my sleeves and get to work in here as well.

Oh, and Joe - that funky thing that changes your URLs to named links - that's a cool little plugin/modification that I did about a year ago. It cost me some cash, but it is clever software that really helps optimise search engine performance called vbSEO. One of the things it will do is try to make sure that links match names for better content matches when search engines spider. You have an option for this called "Automatically retrieve titles from external links" under the "submit reply" button, so you can turn it off if it messes up your posts too much. The search engine links coming into this site have risen by possibly 20% since I installed and configured this plugin (and it's not just from renaming your URLs).

So, I hope my long whinge hasn't put too many people off - and no, it is not directed at any person, I know a lot of you do make valuable contributions. There are some practical suggestions in there and I really would like to see this community grow and get stronger with a bit more help from all of you, so please let me know if you'd like to do something (and if you don't want to contribute with time, then maybe you could throw a small monetary donation to the ABU, or buy a membership).

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Re: Suggestion

Robert, I take my hat off to you (and I'll join the ABU). You do a great job and much/most of it unsung. I know as I have been there and done this.
Were I not so technically inept I'd pitch in.

I really do know that this site has the potential to be THE site on biofuels in Oz and significant globally too. Keep up the good work and you will come out on top.

Shall I start a thread on "how to make this site self funding whilst keeping it's integrity"? There's a lot of bright people out there with ideas, some of which will be doable.

All the best and hang in there, Michael