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Waste Engine Oil? A daft question doubtless, but I have to ask.

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  • Waste Engine Oil? A daft question doubtless, but I have to ask.

    Greetings all.
    As the title indicates, this is probably a daft question, but it is one I have asked myself and then a firend of mine asked me the same question and I, obviously, didn't know the answer.

    What is the reason for not being able to mix Old Engine Oil, after cleaning it like we do WVO, with petrol or diesel or whatever and use it as fuel? I am sure there is a very simple answer and I look forward to receiving it from one of my more knowledgeable fellow pioneers.

    Thanks and regards to all, as usual.

    Geoff. Otherside532

  • #2
    Re: Waste Engine Oil? A daft question doubtless, but I have to ask.

    Hi to the other side of the pond! I read a web site some time back about the USA military using their used engine oil as fuel in their diesel engines, Hummers and trucks etc. They filter it extensively and then add it to the fuel tank as a blend I think. I will try to find the link. I was next to a private bus in traffic the other day and the exhaust smelled of engine oil but wasnt blowing smoke, if you know what I mean, maybe they are blending used engine oil too.
    Peter

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    • #3
      Re: Waste Engine Oil? A daft question doubtless, but I have to ask.

      Hi Geoff,

      The main reason for not using it is that the emissions form waste engine oil are very toxic - lots of heavy metals etc.

      vegetableoildiesel.co.uk - Burning waste engine oil - Powered by XMB

      The link above is to the goat industries UK site and it's been dealt with there.

      Cheers, Michael

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Waste Engine Oil? A daft question doubtless, but I have to ask.

        Originally posted by W123 x 2 View Post
        The main reason for not using it is that the emissions form waste engine oil are very toxic - lots of heavy metals etc.
        Are you saying the American military would do something highly damaging to the environment in order to save money? Next you will say they use depleted urainum in their missiles just so they can... .... umm .... I guess I should have thought this through really.
        cheers<BR>Chris.<BR>1990 landcruiser 80, 1HD-T two tank, copper pipe HE+ 20 plate FPHE, toyota solenoids and filters. 1978 300D, elsbett one tank system.<BR>

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        • #5
          Re: Waste Engine Oil? A daft question doubtless, but I have to ask.

          Hey Geoff How are you,

          there is actually a company in outer west suburbs of Melbourne called ( I think ) enviroil or enviromentoil, that does just that, i do beleive it is very hard to get the fine metal filings out. To the extent that they actually distill it or re-refine it and recreate diesel, I suppose dino diesel is made from crude oil!!. They have only just sarted a few years ago. Are you still blending??.
          nature fuels
          Member
          Last edited by nature fuels; 3 April 2007, 11:00 PM.
          Vegetable Fuels PTY LTD

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          • #6
            Re: Waste Engine Oil? A daft question doubtless, but I have to ask.

            Just a thought, but if the sump oil was filtered to 1 or 0.5 micron that will remove heavy metals and oxides.
            Why do I think this? Because there are water filters sold for this purpose rated at 0.5 micron and they remove just about everything and make drinking water safe from bacteria, heavy metals, and so on.

            So just what is it that will pass though a 0.5 micron filter that will poison the atmosphere and us? Bearing in mind this waste product with disposal issues anyway.

            What is it that a commercial operation (mentioned by nature fuels) is doing to used sump oil that can't be replicated on a micro scale? And is it worth the effort?

            I remember mechanics in cold climates having unflued waste oil burners heating the workshops. These ran 12 hours a day and probably poisoned the workers over time. They are probably still in use too.

            cheers, Michael

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Waste Engine Oil? A daft question doubtless, but I have to ask.

              I thought I'd paste this answer about waste sump oil in from the goat industries site:



              This subject crops up again and again.....

              DO NOT USE IT!

              Reasons-

              Hideous emissions of lead, oxides of indium and aluminium (From engine bearings) as well as all the other carcinogenic and corrosive nasties it makes when burned....

              Excess carbon build-up (From the above, and the spent additives in waste engine oils, which themselves are pretty nasty, even when 'fresh'...)

              Need I say more....?


              www.veggiediesel.co.uk




              But if it can be rendered "safe" by a commercial operator, what are they doing to the oil and how are they doing it?

              Michael

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              • #8
                Re: Waste Engine Oil? A daft question doubtless, but I have to ask.

                There is also a relative on-going discussion about this on infopop as well with the usual highly conflicting information that leaves you no wiser for having read 10 pages of posts than when you first started [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/rupert1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

                Having played around with this some time back Geoff, forgetting about emissions concerns, it is not something I would put in my engine.
                This oil is also full of additives and when it burns, it leaves a high amount of ash and deposits.
                While it is true that WVO also leaves ash behind when burnt, the amount that the engine oil leaves is much greater. I have seen a number of people post they have used WMO for some time without problem. I would suggest that large, slow speed engines would also be more tolerant of a level of contaminants in their fuel than lightweight, hi speed Engines.

                While I don't want to get into a debate about the toxicity of the emissions or not, I would question the popular theroy of all the heavy metals etc in the oil.
                The metals that are found in an engine typically are steel, aluminium and bronze or similar. None of these metals I believe are toxic and to the best of my limited knowledge, the only common metal that is cumulative in the body is lead. I do know for a fact iron and aluminium pass through the body with relative ease.

                The other thing I question is how much of this metal goes into the oil. Engines last hundreds of thousands of Kilometers and have tens of oil changes in this time. When they are clapped out, the wear is measured in thousandths of an inch which represents the "missing" metal which would supposedly go into the oil. Over the life of the engine, what volume of particles would all this engine wear break down into? A thimble full? two maybe?
                If this or whatever amount there is is divided into say 10 oil changes per hundred thousand kilometers, how much metal is actually in each liter of oil?
                The way I have read some people describing the amount of metal in the oil, an engine would wear out in a month! When we look at it from a point of physics, it would seem to me that any metal in the oil is going to be in pretty tiny amounts. Of course then there is the oil filter which is supposed to trap those particles anyway.

                One thing I never see raised in this discussion about all the metals and stuff that would be put into the air from burning WMO, no one ever mentions anything about clutch or brake dust. I would imagine everyone is familiar with the amount of material on a typical pair of brake pads and anyone that changes them would be aware of all the warnings not to blow parts off with compressed air as the majority of friction linings still contain asbestos. I usually run metal Pads on my cars and these have a high proportion of metals like copper amongst other things as well.

                If we also look at trucks and the amount of lining on their brake shoes and clutch plates, it is pretty obvious that some serious amount of toxic material is being liberated from these sources.
                There is no doubt that the amount of hazzarous material released into the air from brakes and clutches would exceed the amount of material that an engine would deposit into it's oil during it's service life many times over.

                An alternative to engine oil could be transmission fluid. Transmissions also have clutch plates and drop appreciable amounts of this into their fluid. Again there are filters to catch this but high milage transmissions usually have a good layer of gunk in the bottom of the pans. I am not familliar with what this material is made of, it may be harmless, probably not.

                I would think transmission fluid could be a better alternative to engine oil from a burning point of view but I would also suggest that it would be wise to filter as fine as possible. If I were going to use this I would be trying for at least 1 micron to remove as much possibly abrasive material as possible.

                Heavy equipment like the military uses tends to have a service life in hours or miles where it is pulled down and rebuilt rather that this being put off till the equipment fails, possibly in the field where peoples lives could be in great danger. If the military find that any problems caused by using engine oil did not require any increased servicing or if it did, and the savings were deemed to be worthwhile in other areas, I am sure they would have no hesitation burning the oil in their engines.

                While burning WMO may not be harmful to an engine, from my own tests and what I have read, I think it likely increases the possibility of engine problems or wear.That said, something like a water injection system may negate that risk.

                Until I see something like a creditable test that suggests there is no problem and WVO becomes a lot harder to get than what it is now, I'll stick with veggie and give the WMO a miss for the time being.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Waste Engine Oil? A daft question doubtless, but I have to ask.

                  Geoff,
                  I have investigated the use of used engine oil as a fuel additive in diesel engines, particularly on engines fuelled by vegetable oils.
                  It is not suitable as a blending agent with Vegetable il, as it causes polymerisation to occur rapidly - I don't know why, but I had a blend of 90% veggie / 10% UEO which blocked filters rapidly. When I emptied the tank, some parts of the fuel come out like custard, while other parts flowed as it should have.

                  I believe that this effect is not apparent when UEO is blended with petroleum diesel.

                  I recommend that it is best to avoid the use of UEO as a fuel supplement in diesel engines, but if you insist, then you should filter the UEO as finely as possible, to remove any wear causing contaminants.

                  It is harder to evaluate the contamination level of Diesel engine oil, (black), than Transmission fluid (red), which shows water presence by clouding, and other contaminants by reflections from light shone thru it.

                  Despite the ready availability of UEO and Transmission fluid (except in winter when the workshop heat is provided by waste oil burners fuelled by these oils) I feel that it is better to use, in order of preference:
                  1. Used Cooking Oil
                  2. Petroleum diesel
                  3. Transmission Fluid
                  4. Used Engine Oil


                  I support the comments made by David above.

                  Regards,
                  Tony
                  Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                  Current Vehicles in stable:
                  '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                  '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                  '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                  Previous Vehicles:
                  '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                  '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                  '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                  '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                  '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                  '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                  '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                  '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                  '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                  Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                  Adding images and/or documents to your posts

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                  • #10
                    Re: Waste Engine Oil? A daft question doubtless, but I have to ask.

                    Hi David,

                    In answer to your quote below, engine oils I have used have the following additives stated on the container; tungsten, molybdenum, lithium and teflon. There are other additives too but I only have a couple of empties to check. These are 'friction modifiers' added to engine oils to improve them!?
                    So it's not so much what wears off the engines moving parts that ends up in the oil, but what the oil companies put into the product to start with. I have no idea if the additives I've listed are toxic or not, but they are an indication that "oils ain't oils".

                    cheers, Michael


                    "While I don't want to get into a debate about the toxicity of the emissions or not, I would question the popular theroy of all the heavy metals etc in the oil.
                    The metals that are found in an engine typically are steel, aluminium and bronze or similar. None of these metals I believe are toxic and to the best of my limited knowledge, the only common metal that is cumulative in the body is lead. I do know for a fact iron and aluminium pass through the body with relative ease." David

                    Comment

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