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  • Bubble Lift

    Anybody had any experience with making a bubble lift. I have been trying to get a bubble lift working to move the algae medium from the tank into the reactor, a lift of approximately 1.5meters.
    I have tried a couple of different venturi designs from a crowd called blovac but can't get the stuff to lift more than a few inches.
    Ample air going into the unit as I used an air blower rated at 3000 litres a minute at 17.5 kpa.
    Going to try and make the GL style of home made venturi ( see biodiesel infopop) but if that fails I will need to go to a pump. Probably have to be a peristaltic pump to avoid damaging the soft walled dunaliella I will be using.
    Any thoughts?
    Slippery
    Small steps taken one at a time.

  • #2
    Re: Bubble Lift

    Slippery,
    Air lift pumps need a large head of water above the air injection site, thus, there is significant lifting happening BELOW the water level. I had a bore 55 metres deep, which I pumped to a tank 20 metres above the water level and 100 M horizontally, using the air lift technique. You do not need a lot of air to do this. Pumping efficiency is poor, but installation cost is low - inexpensive polyethylene piping for air and another or the same type for air/water.

    If your algae is floating, then I believe that this pump is not suitable for your application.

    I hope this helps,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bubble Lift

      Hi there,

      If you're planning on using Dunaliella, I'd stay away from any pumping mechanism that involves shear, peristaltic included. Anyways they're damm expensive. Don't know exactly what you're trying to do [if it's a PBR this won't work] but some inorganic surfactants and a fine air mist will lift the little critters.

      How you planning on preventing the colour comming through?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bubble Lift

        G'day Carotene, G'an dit.

        I am an ex Rhodie/Kaapenaar now in Brisvegas. Where are you based?

        You seem to have some knowledge on the subject. What is your background? I tried using large amounts of air and small amounts of air , large bubbles and small bubbles, and could not get the liquid to rise.

        When you say small bubbles, how small. Would an aquarium air stone work?

        It has been suggested that there has to be a fair depth of water to get a bubble lift to work. Depth of my holding tank is 1 meter but water level will not exceed 900mm, possible less. Your thoughts ?

        Also been advised to look at a disk pump and a sign (possibly sine) pump. Googled these yesterday and could not find any.

        If the cells are not broken, discolouration should not be a problem. I am aware that the astaxanthin in D stains everything so will be carefull.
        Slippery
        Small steps taken one at a time.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bubble Lift

          Howzit,

          Yeah Saffie stuck in Jozi, looking to leave...long story. Got the feeling that you're orig from this side of the sea.

          My background.....large scale cultivation of the critters. Yours? Are you looking at this industrially or for home use? Saw some of your other posts relating to MeOH stripping, so the guess is towards the former.

          Stumble across your post whilst searching for D so dont have the entire pic of your process in my head.

          The floc idea won't work if your still trying to grow the stuff and are just transporting from one vessel to the next...for obvious reasons. Will work if you're interested in harvesting the stuff, it will give you a fairly concentrated biomass, but you'd still need to work this up. Floc depends on your ion balance in the water and I'd go with a fine mist [think of the algae with water wings.. ..].

          Are you trying to get the lipids/glycerol out of the cell, or planning on using the entire cell? If you break the cell during oil extraction you will colour your product

          BTW...sine pumps aka mono-pumps...try netsch, howden...etc they're the best ito of txfr.

          CB

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bubble Lift

            "Are you trying to get the lipids/glycerol out of the cell, or planning on using the entire cell? If you break the cell during oil extraction you will colour your product"

            mmmmm - pink biodiesel. I wonder if that would make it more attractive to the ladies???
            Slippery
            Small steps taken one at a time.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bubble Lift

              CB

              Interesting to note that you believe a perastaltic pump would damage DS/DT cells. I thought the fact that you can set the pressure of the rollers on the pipe would ensure that the cells were not squashed. Am I wrong here?

              Just phoned local Mono Pumps and they do not have any low pressure, high flow pumps. Will keep searching.

              Anybody have any ideas on the disk/ double disk pump?
              Slippery
              Small steps taken one at a time.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bubble Lift

                Slippery,

                You're right about the peristaltic pumps not squashing the cells, they're great when you're messing around with pots and pans, have you seen one that does 400 m3/hr? Tco is ridiculous....

                Mono pumps are traditionally used for high pressure apps, but here you're looking at transport only, so go up in size. ie it's all scale dependant.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bubble Lift

                  Quotes came in for a perastaltic pump at $33 000 and a sine pump used in the wine industry at $7000.

                  I met with the guys from mono pumps and they are keen to work up a "special" deal for me.
                  Slippery
                  Small steps taken one at a time.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bubble Lift

                    Guys at Mono Pumps, Kedron are excellant. Saw them late yesterday afternoon and their quote was emailed around 10 this morning.

                    Their price - $1584 for a pump with s/s rotor used in the wine industry as was the $7 000 noted above.

                    Whilst I am here and talking bubbles, has anybody had any experience with Dissolved Air Flotation?
                    Slippery
                    Small steps taken one at a time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bubble Lift

                      Hello
                      Im asuming you guys are working with algaes. If at all possible could someone send me drawings, documentation or a link on how to grow or extract oils with this feedstock. I have access to many machines and odds n ends where I work and would love to start experimenting. Searching on the net anoys me as everyone seems to be experts and argues if this process is viable. Rome wasnt built in a day!
                      I have found that ultrasonic extraction is a new idea.

                      Cheers

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bubble Lift

                        DD,
                        you will always have differing opinions on any forum you want to raise a discussion point. Every scientist believes his method is the best. Every inventor is trying to build a better mouse trap.

                        At the end of the day, on the topic of algae, there are people all over the world racing to be recognised as having produced the first commercially viable algae production system. Every one of them are running experiments to see what method can be used to obtain the highest lipid extraction.

                        You can grow algae in a glass jar on your window sill and experiment with extraction methods to your hearts content. Unfortunately you are going to have to go onto the web to work out what methods are being used, or not being used.

                        Current methods include screw press, break press, solvents, osmotic pressure, ultra sound and super critical Co2. Some require dry algae, some can use semi dried stock and others can be straight from the tank.

                        I aim to work towards using ultra sound as it does get near 100% extraction and the system can be configured to not only extract oil but also speed up transesterfication process.

                        Google all the above methods and read all you can. Check the numerous forums and read the posts and form your own opinion and do your own experiments.

                        Go for it and enjoy the journey. I am.
                        Slippery
                        Small steps taken one at a time.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bubble Lift

                          Thanks slippery
                          With ultrasonic that is only used as an aid to other methods for higher conversion rates yes?? From what I have reseached this is the case. What system are you trying to run? One where you only rely on ultrasonic to do the conversions?
                          What type of yeilds are you getting currently?
                          Im not trying solve the worlds energy needs just experimenting.

                          Cheers

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bubble Lift

                            Hi DD,

                            "What type of yeilds are you getting currently?"

                            I'm not. Not yet anyway. Still setting up my system which is only a trial unit. What I hope to get and what I will get are 2 different things so we will have to wait and see. Ordered the pump and I should finish the wiring loom and light fit out this weekend. Maybe by next weekend I can do a full acid wash of the system to clean and sterilize and then innoculate with my algae.

                            I'm exxxccciiittted!!!

                            Flowing algae through an Ultra Sound unit will break the cells and release the oils which you then filter out.

                            Using Ultrasound to mix the methox and oil speeds up mixing so you do not need to mix the oil/methox for more than a few minutes as opposed to hours with conventional pump/stirrer systems.

                            Ultra Sound replaces the mixing step and you still need to settle and wash the biodiesel.
                            Slippery
                            Small steps taken one at a time.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bubble Lift

                              Cool im excited for you let us know how it performs.
                              What the hell is methox?? seems to be a bodybuilding supplement. So you can use ultrasonic by its self to seperate the oils... cool how are you filtering it after it passes through the ultrasonic treatment? With this methox and what process?
                              Would be good if you could send me link if there is one of the method your using. Diagrams and what not are a big help for us newbs.

                              Sorry about all the ??? but it might save me and other people time trying other methods that dont work as well.

                              Cheers

                              Comment

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