newbie questions

[Tegan N Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Tegan N]

Hi there, very pleased to find this forum.
I have just inherited a good condition newish car which I am going to sell, and I want to buy a secondhand diesel car I can convert to run on Straight vegie oil, or biodiesel. Can I ask all you guys some questions...?
1. I thought the vegie oil option was cleaner as I understand biodiesel is only a blend - is this the case? (So although quite a bit more hassle, preferable, as cutting my emissions and fuel price is my objective...)
2. Is it the case that biodiesel (that I could buy, rather than make) is still cleaner than LPG? I thought so, but not sure. (This was why I wanted to go vegie oil...) Can anyone give me an emission comparison of biodiesel vs LPG?

thanks
pS - very interested to attend a demo day, espescially for doing vegie oil - I'd need instruction for sure!
thanks
T

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: new here!..some basic q's...

I thought biodiesel is/was a blend of 20% vegie oil with 80% diesel.

Hi Tegan

Welcome to the exciting world of Biofuels.

Biodiesel is made by chemically converting cooking oil to form methyl ester. It isn't made by combining vege oil with diesel, although you can certainly do that. That would be loosely called "vege oil/ diesel blend". A lot of people do blending of oil or biodiesel with petro diesel.

All the best

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: newbie questions

Tegan,
Biodiesel is made by reacting vegetable oils or animal fats with methanol and a catalyst. It is not a blend. Because it uses a petroleum product (methanol) it can be up to 80% renewable, as far as the CO2 emissions are concerned. It also burns much cleaner than petroleum diesel.
There is a by-product of the biodiesel process which comprises soaps, residual catalyst, glycerol and other contaminants. Environmentally friendly uses are available for some of this, but at between 10 and 20% of the volume of fuel produced, there is a LOT of it around.

Used Vegtable Oil used as a fuel, has only the filtrate to dispose of and as far as the CO2 is concerned, is 100% renewable. It also burns cleaner than petroleum diesel, but for long term reliability, it is recommended that a heated fuel system be added to the vehicle, for the veggie oil.
It is recommended that the car be started on diesel (or biodiesel) and shut down on it also, to minimise issues with carbon build up in the combustion chambers and on the compression rings.
When the engine is at normal operating temperature, a fuel valve is operated to allow the engine to draw veggie oil from the heated fuel system.

As far as CO2 emissions are concerned, Biodiesel and Veggie oil are WAY better than LPG, or any other petroleum fuel.
NOTE: even in an LPG converted diesel engine, diesel still needs to be injected, providing "ignition" of the LPG in the combustion chamber. (Note- no spark plug in diesel engines.)

I hope this assists your decision.

Tony

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: newbie questions

Hi Tegan, Joe, Tony,

I've merged the 2 threads that these were posted under into this one. I'd assume that there were 2 threads because the first one that Tegan posted was moderated (hidden from the public until approved by a moderator), thus the second posting. Sorry Tegan, but because of all the spam attacks we get here, I have an automated rule that any new user's posts get moderated before they are seen.

Moderators (like Joe and Tony) will see the posts (hence their replies), but everyone else will not until they approve them. Joe, Tony, you can tell a moderated post by the little icon that appears next to it - looks like this . I've selected these posts and approved them now, so everyone can see them.

Sorry if this is off topic, but I thought this was the best place for me to explain why these threads are merged.

Good luck with your biofuel investigations Tegan.

[Tegan N Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Tegan N]

Re: newbie questions

thanks everyone.
Yep sorry I posted twice when the first one dissapeared - before I realised mods had to approve it.

OK, so I'm still on the path to SVO (over biodiesel). When I finally get the car I am probably going to have to pay one of you to assist me to get it happening...! Yes I thought it was going to involve heating up at start and finish.

cheers all. I will keep watch for your demo days or picnic days or whatever...!

[pangit Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close pangit]

Re: newbie questions

The main consideration when deciding to go down the WVO or biodiesel path comes down to mechanical know-how.

You can put biodiesel in any diesel engine (just about) with no modifications. There are a few places you can buy it commercially, notably the newly reopened station in Marrickville, if you're in Sydney.

WVO requires a two tank system with some kind of switch and a heat exchanger. Most people install these themselves, and I don't know of any commercial outfits in Australia that will do this for you. You will also have to consider how you are going to collect, store and filter the WVO (you will have to do this with biodiesel anyway, but only if you make it yourself).

My suggestion would be to buy your diesel car first (always a good start!), but don't forget to stay away from those old Mercs (see my other post!). Then see if you can buy some biodiesel near you to see how your car likes it. Meanwhile you can dig around here for some more info on how to build your own processor or convert the car to WVO.

[hagakure Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close hagakure]

Re: newbie questions

It is very interesting to read your discussion on the use of biofuels and vegetable oil .I know very little about the chemestry of using these fuels other than my grade ten chenestry . All I know is there is a young chap in my area who is using some used vegetable oil in his diesel ute to save money Your discussion on how clean these are interests me . WHERE CAN I GET SOMe reliable figures . I just purchased a 1986 ? nissan urvan diesel ( rambo my nissan )is a reliable old fella but he likes to be fed often . If I converted him to either biofuel or vegy oil woul he be less hungry and more efficient? My main concern is that it is clean . Thanks and I would be interested in your response.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: newbie questions

Just to be pedantic

WVO is used fryer oil. It can be used as SVO or to make biodiesel.

SVO is untransesterfied Vegetable and animal oil used to fuel a car. It can be new oil but more typically it is well filtered and dried WVO.

[gwalker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gwalker]

Re: newbie questions

It is very interesting to read your discussion on the use of biofuels and vegetable oil .I know very little about the chemestry of using these fuels other than my grade ten chenestry . All I know is there is a young chap in my area who is using some used vegetable oil in his diesel ute to save money Your discussion on how clean these are interests me . WHERE CAN I GET SOMe reliable figures . I just purchased a 1986 ? nissan urvan diesel ( rambo my nissan )is a reliable old fella but he likes to be fed often . If I converted him to either biofuel or vegy oil woul he be less hungry and more efficient? My main concern is that it is clean . Thanks and I would be interested in your response.

Ed,
Your Nissan will still use approximately the same number of gallons as you use now but:

1. You can run it on filtered vegetable oil virtually for free once you have organised a regular supply of waste vegetable oil, set up filtering drums and converted your Nissan with an extra small tank , heated fuel lines etc.
2. ..or you can run it on biodiesel made from waste vegetable oil at a fraction of the pump price of diesel with little modification to the Nissan and some garage shed processing drums pipes and chemicals.
3. Both approaches are environmentally friendly.
4. The biodiesel approach will give your Nissan engine more lubrication and thus a longer life.
5. You will have a new hobby
6. You will become a curiosity to your friends who will whisper about you behind your back and make jokes about your 'fried chicken truck' but secretly envy your fuel savings.

The filtered vegetable oil option is probably the more expensive and time consuming option to set up but once done there is minimal ongoing cost for fuel, and you won't be subject to any government requlations.

The biodiesel approach is simple to get started and to do some small 1 litre test batches. It doesn't require any vehicle modifications and you can add pump diesel to the biodiesel in your tank at any time if you need more fuel to top up on a journey. It may attract some government interest.

If your Nissan was manufactured before 1995 you may have to eventually upgrade some fuel lines and the injector pump seals if you opt for biodiesel.
My Nissan is an '89 Patrol and I run it on B100 - 100% biodiesel.
George

[Tegan N Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Tegan N]

Re: newbie questions

whoops sorry I ended up replying to this on the other SVO thread...
thanks everyone, I am taking it all in (slowly!)

[hagakure Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close hagakure]

Re: newbie questions

thank you George . I was speaking to phil ,my mechanic . His friend has converted a few diesels to using biofuel and vegetable oil . He was very interested in your reply . HEis going to do some more research . Thanks again until next time.

[zigparacingtadpole Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zigparacingtadpole]

Re: newbie questions

Ed,
If you are looking for some vehicle data for Rambo (nice nickname by the way, I once had a car called Mongo the virgin slayer, but thats getting off topic) might I suggest you PM a user here called URVEY. He has a Nissan Van (although maybe a bit newer) that runs on SVO/WVO. I helped him convert his van just before christmas last year so he should have some data that may help you. I know he has done a couple of big trips as well as some running around town so you should get a good idea of what to expect post conversion.
Tegan, more power to you whichever way you decide to go. There is a wealth of knowledge here and the people are only too happy to help where possible.

[GBeverley Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close GBeverley]

Re: newbie questions

Not only am I new to forums but also to bio-diesel.
My partener has a nisson van. how old is it?(antique) and is thinking of changing over to veggie oil/biodiesel so I thought I would find out a little about it. Interesting reading the questions and replies and I am not sure what language you guys are speaking though. lol . I myself speak plain old ozie. I am the girl who knows where to put the petrol, the oil and the water into my car and thats about it.
My questions are
1. what is the process of getting biodiesel. Is biodiesel something you buy from the shop like you do with petrol or do you make it and if so how?
2. Using vegie oil what do I need to make it useable in the van and what equipment is required. Please remember I need educating in the lanuage (Plain female ozie english)
3. Is there any parts we would need to buy for the van for questions 1 or 2?

[Cameron Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Cameron]

Re: newbie questions

thanks everyone.
...
cheers all. I will keep watch for your demo days or picnic days or whatever...!

Hi Tegan,
If you can give us a bit more of an idea of where you are other than 'in transit' we could probably give you more info about when the next activity close to you might be occuring.

A city shouldn't be too exposing for you?

if you don't want to release even that much info on line then send me a pm offline and I will get back to you.

Cheers,
Cameron
Sydney (Northern Beaches as of next week....)

[Tegan N Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Tegan N]

Re: (more) newbie questions

Hey everyone,
hi again, know it's been ages...

Cameron, when I said 'in transit' I really meant it! I have had a pretty unusual couple of months...due to deaths in the family, moves gone wrong, and more...I am doing a triangle between south coast NSW (Bawley Point), Canberra, and Sydney at the moment. Not sure yet but looks like I will be moving back to Sydney, not sure exactly where yet but within half an hour of Marrickville as that's my partner's business is (and where I would also be working).

OK so. Looks like I am about to sell my Mum's Ford Focus 2.0 2002, the best price I am going to get from a dealer will be 11,000 and I keep half of that - $5,500. I am feeling like maybe I should re-register it and keep it for a bit longer so I can get a good trade-in on a diesel car, so I can run bio-diesel to start and then slowly convert to vegie oil with the help of you good people here.

Big question:
- If I buy a diesel I am going to be relying on the Marrickville station for biodiesel. Bill, or one of you others involved with it, is its existence still a bit tenuous or is it definately going to be around for awhile? I don't want to buy a diesel car only to have to put dirty diesel in it!

- so I got the message those old model Mercs are the way to go for veg oil conversion, but what if I'm considering buying a 4WD? Which models/makes can be converted (and work well with veg oil) - I need to know this before I buy even though I may not be converting for awhile. Recommendations? PS I'd need to be able to buy 2nd hand for maybe $7,000

thanks again guys. sorry I know this might be a cross-thread post (re the veg oil)