what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

[Tegan N Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Tegan N]

Hi everyone,
I'm totally new here, very happy to find this.
I just inherited an expensive-ish car which I am going to sell, and look for a 2nd-hand diesel car to convert to straight vegie oil.
Can people give me some basic advice as to what I should look for - newer vs older, preferred make, etc?

And I know this is basic but what preparation is required, once you've got a source of oil?
Pointing me to a basic thread would be fine, if there is one.

thanks
Tegan

[Guest Close David]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

I believe the very best engine for WVO or bio fuels in general is the Mercedes.
The 76-84 300D models of the W123 series is particularly popular and decent examples go for around $4000. Later 300D's are also a good choice if you want something a bit later model.

For something a little newer and more up to date, the Daewoo/ssangyong ( SP?) 4wds also have the Merc motor. These Vehicles go for anything from about 8K to 12K depending on year, mileage etc. The diesel is a 2.9L and the petrol ( boo-hiss) engine is a 3.2. Often ads don't mention diesel or petrol, just the engine size.

From what I have looked up, I have learned that the merc engine design is different to other diesels and these unique features lend themselves well to veg oil use. the type of injection pump used on the mercs also has a reputation of being tough and robust. Engines that use inline type pumps are the the most prefrable with veg oil and rotary type pumps are renowned for giving trouble on a high percentage of Vehicles.

Other makes of vehicles are used with success with veg oil, Toyota being a main one and also Nissan patrols amoung others.
Pretty much any engine will be OK on bio as long as it isn't one of the latest breed and much the same with WVO on 2 tank conversions.

[W123 x 2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close W123 x 2]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

David,

Stop telling everyone how good the Mercedes Benz W123 diesels are!!!

I still have two more to buy for my daughters to run on SVO. If you keep telling all comers how they are bullet proof, safe, reliable, etc. etc., there won't be any left at a reasonable price.


Cheers, Michael

[Suzy Member Find all posts View Profile Close Suzy]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

Pretty much any engine will be OK on bio as long as it isn't one of the latest breed

Why do you say this? My experience has been counter to this - I've got an uber-tech common rail engine in my pug that runs perfectly on bio.

Indeed I'd always thought it was the opposite way around - newer engines have bio-tolerant fuel lines and seals.

[Fitian Was here Find all posts View Profile Close Fitian]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

newer engines have bio-tolerant fuel lines and seals.

Are you sure?

[Guest Close David]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

Why do you say this? My experience has been counter to this - I've got an uber-tech common rail engine in my pug that runs perfectly on bio.

Indeed I'd always thought it was the opposite way around - newer engines have bio-tolerant fuel lines and seals.

I say this erring on the side of caution given the discussions about particulate filters and the fact most manufacturers won't warrant their vehicles with over 5% Bio.
Yes, it is more complex than this but for the sake of the question asked, I believe this is generally accurate info. The other thing was that the main question was concerned with a WVO conversion and I believe, again in general, older engine and pump designs are more tolerant and take better to these conversions.

As far as something like a diesel merc is concerned, there is probably not much more than a meter if that of non metal fuel line to change anyway..... about 6 bucks worth if you buy it at the right place. I changed all of mine in the carpark of the parts place down the road from where I bought the car before I even drove ( towed ) it home.


Hey Michael,

Your right.
I should shut up!
I want another one of these as well. Certainly wish I could find a turbo wagon but i'm not even sure if they were sold here other than special orders if that.

I'll be sure not to mention how simple they are to work on, how the parts are still heaps cheaper than modern cars, how you can get all the parts for them and how unbeliveably good they feel to drive despite their age.
If I let the poor people driving other makes of vehicles in on these little secerets, they would all want one and where would us cluey blokes be left then 'eh?

[pangit Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close pangit]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

No, don't touch those old Mercs! They are cheap and nasty, poorly put together, totally unsuitable for biodiesel and are constantly falling apart and breaking down. All that stuff you hear about German engineering does not apply with the W123 model, as they were actually manufactured in East Germany by the same plant that made the Trabant during the cold war.

David and Michael are only winding you up as their next move will be to try and sell you theirs, as they can't even give them away! Nobody who knows anything about these cars wants old rubbish like that. (Work with me here guys!)

[Fitian Was here Find all posts View Profile Close Fitian]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

(Work with me here guys!)

Ah, you are doing a good job already mate

I have converted three 300Ds and one 240D so far and did not learn my lesson yet . Bloody over engineered cars .

[ilwarzz Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close ilwarzz]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

What about w124 first cars (85'-88') for 2-tank conversion? Because in Latvia its cheap to buy one (1500 $ usa)! And all w123 are in horrible condition!

[angus@aroundyoga.com Member Find all posts View Profile Close angus@aroundyoga.com]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

Hi Tegan,

as mentioned there are some things you need to be aware of as not all diesels can be successfully converted. Myself I am in the process of converting a mercedes c250 diesel, though I'm not going to get into the jap / kraut argument here.

A useful resource is the elsbett website Pflanzenöl Motor Umrüstung Rapsöl Motor Elsbett Motor - Elsbett AG. If you find a car you're interested in have a look to see if they sell a conversion kit for it. If they have it listed in their online shop and they don't sell a kit for that car (NO) then it most likely means they've investigated the possibilities and there are problems in doing it.

If it lists a one tank system (1T) then it can run on straight veg all the time.

If it lists a two tank system (2t) system then you'll have to start it on diesel (in a small tank you add) then run on veg when warmed up (from the main tank).

There's not a lot of diesel sedans out there, you'll have a bigger choice if you want a 4wd. If you use your price range and have a look at one of the car sales websites looking for a diesel then check them out on the elsbett site you'll probably get a shortlist soon enough.

To fry in style you can get a very nice leather and walnut mercedes e300 turbodiesel for about 30k. For a 4wd you can get fairly tidy ssanyongs for around 10k, under that price you're looking at a 1980s peugeot or mercedes 300d, though the odd japanese diesel sedan does crop up now and again.

Hope that's helpful

Angus

[marki Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marki]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

Are you sure?

Yep - many modern vehicles are actually built with bio in mind. I know a bloke with a (less than 1 year old) VW transporter that he says is actually set up for bio.

And I'm surprised that it hasn't been mentioned here but the old Gemini diesels have a good reputation for a cheapy. They have Isuzu motors that are all but bulletproof.

And as for all you blokes that drive Mercs, I can only assume that you're never in a hurry to get anywhere. I was considering buying a 300D recently, until I took it for a drive - I tramped the accelerator and then had to check that I hadn't pressed the brake by mistake.

Or have the motors been modified (or turboed) - there were people here before saying that they had altered the injectors or something.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

Dont look at a grey import corolla for doing an svo conversion. Looking under the bonnt of one trying to work out where to put stuff, actually gave up and started to work out what could be shifted elsewhere, like winsheild washer bottles. Not much room at all....

Gemini diesels? legendary. Only regret was selling the drivetrain and not retransplanting it into another car. Faster than a petrol auto by a lot, nice to work on, plenty of room under the bonnet, good size boot. Hard to come by though.

Mercs. 0 to 100 in about 30 secconds. relaxing car to drive, smooth etc. Not for those who spend their lives rushing from one point to another. You always arrive relaxed, calm, and ready for whatever you have gone for, not stressed. Best if you pactice the mantra, "if you wanted to get there before me (person in rear view mirror) you should have left before me". I did make the mistake of going for a ride in a supercharged v8 commodore (quarter mile in 13 secs) and then got into the merc. I opened the door to check I was moving.

[Fitian Was here Find all posts View Profile Close Fitian]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

I was considering buying a 300D recently, until I took it for a drive - I tramped the accelerator and then had to check that I hadn't pressed the brake by mistake. .

300D has a hand brake on the driver's right hand side. You must have left it on. It's okay not many people know it is there

[Tegan N Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close Tegan N]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

thanks everyone this is all grist for the mill...

yeah look I always knew this was going to be beyond my mechanical ability - there's no way I'd be able to convert it myself, would have to get someone to help me with it.
The car I would be selling (I have to give half to my sister, it's my Mum's who just passed away recently) is a near-new Ford Focus 2.0 which are supposed to be amazing and look quite European & cool, etc - but have horrible visibility.
So I'm thinking conservatively I might have about 8.5K to spend as they seem to go for about 17,000 second-hand.

Um, you all seem fairly divided on this Mercedes issue. I hadn't really wanted a 4WD as if it takes me ages to get a conversion completed I may be really spending heaps on diesel! Although it would be great to have a 4WD in other ways...

anyway will keep checking it out.
re: the 1-tank thing - I thought 2-tank systems were all there was? whatever...
thanks again
Tegan

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: what kind of 2nd-hand car should I look for to convert...

If I was in your shoes. (8.5K to spend, dont wish to do it myself, except oil filtering?)

work on buying best 300D W123 mercI can lay my hands on. Should be about 4-5K there is a phrase "there is no more expensive car to own as a cheap to buy mercedes" dont bother with a 2K one, it will take more than 2K to get good. Search trading post, newsclasifieds (the worst internet search you will come across, which means no one else looks there) evilbay (look before you bid), retirement homes..... Put a block of wood under the accelerator pedal of the focus to "get you in the mood" for the new speed (or lack thereof)

Find a diesel shop who is happy to give it a go. (there is one in munt gambier but its a fair drive!) The injectors need to be rebuilt and callabrated, (giving the injector pump an overhaul is prefered, but not compulsory) new glow plugs inserted, a coolant powered fuel heater, and probably some wiring changes.

Locate supply of oil. Ask initially for some to expirement with, when getting it home check it is 90% clear at room temp. If its solid give it a miss, and try another shop.

Dont worry about e-mailing elsbett. They only seem to respond to paid up customers and first enquiry (perhaps)

If you can get the first three right (good supply of oil, good merc and good diesel shop) go for it.