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Has anyone had any success with Alex Kac's "Foolproof method". I have tried twice but had two failed mini batches. Most of the oil I get is either animal fat or veg/fat blend, any help appreciated.
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Re: Foolproof method?
Hey Bashplate - welcome here. Could you please give us a rundown or a link on the "Alex Kac's Foolproof method"? I'm personally not sure what you mean, so you might find more help from others as well if they know what you're talking about
Robert.
Site Admin.
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Re: Foolproof method?
Hello bashplate
The Foolproof method (also called the Foolproof Joke and the Foolproof disaster) is Total Crapola! The Foolproof Joke NEVER makes high quality biodiesel and rarely even achieves seperation.
For the full test series by a famous Mouse which showed what a disaster this method really is read this discussion:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/...51/m/328607547
Do be aware that the vast majority of the information on the Journey to forever site is hopelessly inaccurate and some of the recommended procedures such as the Foolproof Joke are based on phony science and complete nonsense.
And that does not even take into account the SCAM being perpetrated.
Animal fat reacts just the same as veggie oil and has no higher FFA lever than any other oil.
TillyLast edited by tillyfromparadise; 24 May 2006, 06:55 PM.Comment
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Re: Foolproof method?
For various resons do not use it, seach on the infopop forum about the fatta method.
1. he does no 2nd level titration - very bad
2. No one recipe fits all
3. MOST important, the higher the intial FFA level the more acid you need, his 1ml per litre is fine for a low FFA start point, higher levels like 13g KOH titration value may need as much as 2ml per litre, the higher you go the more you need to a point. The bonding of methanol to the FFA makes biodiesel but also releases a molecule of H2O (water) the Sulphuric is there to dry this up, it is very hydroscopic (likes water). Too much FFA makes too much water, if it not removed the second stage makes too much soap etc etc
Read more on the acid base area on infopop, start small and work up.
Its not that Alex is wrong, he is inaccurate which is just as bad. It is alledged that it is not his work in the forst place, I do not know but with a knowledge of chemistry and when initially reading his work it seems fine but its NOT.
MattBiodiesel Bandit
Landcruiser '98 80 series B100.Comment
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Re: Foolproof method?
Thanks for the replies, made interesting reading. Have tried several 1lt test batches using the Fatta method with animal fat, but no seperation, have tried several batches using the Single Stage method with animal fat but no seperation, have tried to follow as close as possible to the methods as described and am ready to give away animal fat. I am using NaOH, do you think KOH would give a different result?
Have been processing veg oil for three+ years and running two diesels and have done over 100,000 kms but veg getting harder to get and animal fat is everywhere.
Any help appreciated, would like to hear from anyone that has had success with 100% animal fat batches.
cheers bashplate.Comment
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Re: Foolproof method?
Hello Bashplate,
I have made LOTS of biodiesel from Tallow (Animal Fat) .
It works just the same as Veggie oil although if you use NaOH in the reaction you will get gelling from the soap 10 times out of 10 so you need to wash the biodiesel before using.
What is your tallow titrating at?
What is the brand, Frytol in the blue pail?
TillyComment
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Re: Foolproof method?
I just did 15 lts of frytol tallow last weekend, it was in a frytol 20lt drum and it was tallow so i assume it was frytol tallow, it titrated at 2.6.
So for me that was 7.8 grams koh 90% pure plus 2.6 grams titration and 200ml methanol per litre tallow, filtered and dry heated to 55 celsius stired for 1 hour settled for 48 hours 4 stir washes the fourth was crystal clear, then bubble dryed.
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Re: Foolproof method?
Hi Tilley, the tallow is frytol and it titrated at 7ml to get a Ph of 8Comment
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Re: Foolproof method?
Hello Bashplate
The magic number is 8.6 if you are using a pH meter with the titration.
That is a pretty high titration, I have never had oil that titrated that high.
I suggest you try to find some better oil. If that is not possible, an Acid/Base procedure is your best bet, just not the Foolproof Disaster.
Often high titration oil has some water tied up in it.
I would take a small sample and heat it to around 120deg C to see if there is any water driven off.
Popping and frothing is an indication of water. Be careful, the water /oil can get very explosive
TillyLast edited by tillyfromparadise; 1 June 2006, 11:24 AM.Comment
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Re: Foolproof method?
Here is a pic from last weekends tallow was frytol.Comment
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Re: Foolproof method?
Are you talking about the Sulphuric acid method? If so I also had problems but I suspect that he has miss quotes the volume of acid required. It appears to be too little but I have not had a chance to calculate the correct volume. Has anybody succeeded or done the calculation.Originally posted by bashplateHas anyone had any success with Alex Kac's "Foolproof method". I have tried twice but had two failed mini batches. Most of the oil I get is either animal fat or veg/fat blend, any help appreciated.Comment
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Re: Foolproof method?
i have reason to believe that this method is totally useless
ya would have more success useing the acid/base method decribed on the infopop site. but the thing is unless ya oil titrates very high there is no need to go this way. ya would be far better of sticking with the single stage process.Comment
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Re: Foolproof method?
Hello bytesupport
Actually, the 1ml H2SO4 per litre of WVO is just about the the ONLY part of the method that is correct.
The rest is just plain nonsense
pantom is correct, the Foolproof Joke is a totally useless procedure if your aim is to have a reactor full of high conversion biodiesel at the finish
TillyComment
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