Pumps.

[Guest Close David]

Hello all,

After reading so much info about bio and WVO which all comes from the States, it is so good to see a local forum. Everything in the US seems more plentiful, easier to come by and so much cheaper than what is available here.
I have seen a lot on the pumps they use in the US which are available cheaply but does anyone know of a supplier or brand that is available here at a reasonable price? I have seen some pumps available on Ebay but not sure if they are up to the task and they aren't too cheap either.

I do note that a lot of people in the US are using electric heating elements for their processors. These can be had in Oz from electrical wholesalers in a wide variety of heat outputs and shapes. Many if not all seem to use a standard screw in fitting. Maybe some of the more engineering educated amoung us know what thread that is and where it could be obtained so it could be welded to a tank. Maybe it is a standard Nut or flange size that is used in some industry or another?
It looks to me to be about the same size as what is on a standard 44 gallon drum but we couldn't be that lucky could we?

[captain Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close captain]

Re: Pumps.

Gidday David.
I am knew to this bio business but can see no reason why a cheap pool pump
or similar would not be sufficent to do the job.
As for the element thread size I am pretty sure it would be BSP (british standard pipe) which is probably the most common pipe thread used in
Australia for smaller applications.
Any plumbing supplier will sort out your problems.
If you have any dramas or questions reguarding parts just post it up here and I am sure it will be dealt with asap.
Cheers
Ian

[Gunner Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gunner]

Re: Pumps.

The large bung thread on a 44Gal drum is 2"BSP. If you go to any plumbing suppliers or rural merchandise store, they will have adapters and reducers (in brass, aluminium, zinc plated steel or poly plastic) to enable just about any thread combination you could think of.

[Terry Syd Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Terry Syd]

Re: Pumps.

You may wish to look into the 'Appleseed' design. It is constructed from an old electrical water heater. It is a closed system so that there is no loss from evaporation.

Here is a link to where you can find a few threads on the subject.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/...rm/f/948102678

[hdj80 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hdj80]

Re: Pumps.

I am using a pump that I got new from a Rural supplier at the South Coast about 18mths ago, called a Riva Flow. Seems to work great moves 100litres Bio in less that 4mins $80.
Or
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BRAND-NEW-1-2...QQcmdZViewItem
This looks like a good option...
I would stay clear of pool pumps as they tend to have plastic bits in there and I am not sure how they would handle sucking up old thick grease and then pumping a mix with Methoxide in it at high temps..
Definitely build a Appleseed Processor.

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Pumps.

I am using a pump that I got new from a Rural supplier at the South Coast about 18mths ago, called a Riva Flow. Seems to work great moves 100litres Bio in less that 4mins $80.
Or
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BRAND-NEW-1-2...QQcmdZViewItem
This looks like a good option...
I would stay clear of pool pumps as they tend to have plastic bits in there and I am not sure how they would handle sucking up old thick grease and then pumping a mix with Methoxide in it at high temps..
Definitely build a Appleseed Processor.

You'd never believe it but I won this item. Hah got it for $70 bucks. Classic hey. So I'll have a pump delivered for christmas.

How would one use a pump for pumping wvo and then using it to mix the brew and then using it to move water around. I suppose I would use BD to clean between uses? What is anyone else doing?

[CueBall Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CueBall]

Re: Pumps.

How would one use a pump for pumping wvo and then using it to mix the brew and then using it to move water around. I suppose I would use BD to clean between uses? What is anyone else doing?

Joe, I was not planning to use my centrifugal pump to suck the WVO into the processor, but the problem remains with regard to cross-contamination when pumping the filtered WVO from its tank into the Reactor and then the unwashed biodiesel into the Washing/Drying Tank, with all the attendant pumping operations in between to mix in the Methoxide and to dry the biodiesel, followed by the final pumping of the washed and dried biodiesel into the storage container.

My solution is three-fold.
Firstly, the intake manifold for the pump has to plumbed in such a way that there is a drain valve located at a point that is lower than every other part of the system. This becomes the "Slops" Drain.
In between the major transfer pumping operations, i.e. where one liquid form is going to another stage of the processing, the tanks are isolated and the whole system of pipes connecting the tank from which product has been pumped to the inlet of the tank to which the product has been pumped are allowed to drain out the drain valve and are collected in a Slops container for further separation and processing with the next batch.

Secondly, to aid the draining of all the pipes, the horizontal pipes need to be installed with a degree of fall away from the tank and to the pipe feeding them. This further aids the complete drainage of the piping so that very little in the way of cross-contaimination with less processed liquid can take place.

Lastly, on the pump itself, a solution to making certain of the complete draining of the pump chamber, is to drill and tap an small hole in the lowest point of the pump chamber which is then fitted with a valve and plumbed into the "slops" drain. This may not be possible with all pumps, but if it is possible to do, it will aid complete drainage of the pump housing. Brass fitttings should be used as they have a close compatibility with cast iron pump housings in terms of thermal expansion and do not cause any unwanted reactions with the biodiesel as far as I can discern.
If it is not possible to drill and tap such a hole, then the vertical mounting of the pump might be an acceptable means to achieve a similar result. Before assuming that a pump mounted vertically will drain better than the same pump mounted horizontally, it could be tested by the simple expedient of putting liquid in it then observing which position gives the best drainage.
With regard the potential issue of whether the bearings would handle the different orientation, that would depend upon the construction of the specific pump in question. The pump dealer might well be able to provide the necessary answer.
As usual, I am a bit wordy. Sorry for that.
In friendship
Quentin

[dillyman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dillyman]

Re: Pumps.

Hi Quentin,
I feel much the same about the pump drainage. Also in one system the pump was mounted vertically- great idea for that pump as it had a central oriface. I, like you joe recieved from ebays Father Christmas an 1/2 hp 1" pump. Documentation does not recommend it is mounted in any vertical orientation as the bearings they say will suffer the indignaties, as they are not designed for this, and could result in early bearing failure. However, if that is the case there is no reason why the pump orientation could not be rotated on its axis, this could maintain horizontal bearings, and put the inlet feed at the bottom with no need to drill a drainage point, I intend to use the 4 valves on the cross flow, if, I find a sedimentary problem . As i intend to make maximum use of the pump capabilities, I would prefer to flush through the pump intake from the Glycerine output oriface as I would be disconnecting the reactor top hose to move oil around. It should be no hassle to flush it through into an independant container, or , am I still suffering from the festive season. Another issue I believe we may have Joe is the pump I believe has a brass or bronze impellor and a rubber gasket. I remember in "Flash Harry's" same as crazy clarkes, Sollies Warehouse etc a teflon cutting sheet for the top of the old bread board, make a terrific gasket with a bit of craftmanship (I think????) Well I am already to go. I have sourced Methanol in Hervey Bay at a reasonable price. Gympy Garage , although it is the same org as the Nambour depot are asking $50.60 for 20 Lt drum and $334 for 200lts. At Hervey bay 200lts is $250. I also have an excellent source of cottonseed oil. About 80 lt per week probably a bit less after the hight of season. I may need to outsource ???

Hope all had a good season and are recovering quickly, let us know what you think about the pump etc as I would like to hear comments before I finally bolt down.

All the best

Dillyman

[darren leonadas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close darren leonadas]

Re: Pumps.

Good topic to bring up (pumps).
Its amazing where you can find pumps. From in the guts of old disused, found on the side of the road, washing machines to old junk yard sales, at tips, at car boot sales, Boat Chandlers and truck wreckers, once your eyes and imagination are open it will freak you how many places we use pumps.
At the Melbourne club we have a collection, From manual drum pumps (the only one i've bought) to gear pumps that could literally suck a golf ball through a garden house.
centrifugal pumps wont suck a dead head, but will push fast and volume, gear pumps may not push a great volume but really suck imidiatly and without head, sometimes just a manual syphone drum pump is the most useful, for instance for your methoxide, it all depends on the application, so transcend having only one pump around a backyard plant. And avoid non sealed electric motors around Meth finding a good pump with a sealed motor can be hard. but finding both seperatly and fashioning a rig and drive belts can be easier. a good plant has dedicated pumps for each application or function.
Good topic to bring up.

[Dalan Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dalan]

Re: Pumps.

Gidday David.
I am knew to this bio business but can see no reason why a cheap pool pump
or similar would not be sufficent to do the job.
As for the element thread size I am pretty sure it would be BSP (british standard pipe) which is probably the most common pipe thread used in
Australia for smaller applications.
Any plumbing supplier will sort out your problems.
If you have any dramas or questions reguarding parts just post it up here and I am sure it will be dealt with asap.
Cheers
Ian

Unfortunately most water pumps can't handle oil due to the difference in density. Any fuel or oil pump will do the job, I will be importing biodiesel very shortly and will be trying to provide a source of a range of pumps that do the job. Check out albatrossrenewableenergy.com
will have a no of states based suppliers on there in the next week.

[RODEONICK Too Busy To Bio. Find all posts View Profile Close RODEONICK]

Re: Pumps.

[quote=Dalan;28847]Unfortunately most water pumps can't handle oil due to the difference in density. /quote]

You are full of it aren't you????
You say that water pumps are no good for oil
You say that polymerisation is the way of the future

Do you even know what biodiesel is??

sorry if i sound like a prick but this is the second thread with you in it that makes absolutly no sence. this makes me think your trying to pull a scam.???

water pumps pump oil fine.
Pollerisation is a problem NOT a desired attirute for biodiesel.

Good luck with selling your biodiesel that needs heaters.
How much deposit do you want?