Heating WVO

[Geoff Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Geoff]

Hi all,
I've just started and would appreciate some advice regarding heating. I've done two small (ten litres) batches of Biodiesel and would like to stepup to a sixty litre mix. I've got the use of some 150 litre plastic drums for my processor and wash tank etc. The problem is that by the time I've heated the WVO on a BBQ and filtered it, the temp has droped too much to let me add the methodox. I've tried insulation around the drum, this helped a little but still not warm enough to continue. I know that I could go back to a smaller batch but it's not what I really want to do. Is there an imersion heater suitable for heating the oil to the 55c processing temp?
Regards Geoff

[Terry Syd Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Terry Syd]

Re: Heating WVO

Geoff, you might want to try converting a used water heater (Appleseed processor) to keep the oil hot during the conversion process.

Here's a link to get you into the ballpark-

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/...rm/f/607108578

[Geoff Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Geoff]

Re: Heating WVO

Thanks Terry,
Have seen the appleseed processors etc and at this stage of my bio production, I'm basically trying to work with what I've got and I think I would more than likely progress to something like an appleseed if I could source a used hot water system that would be suitable.
Regards Geoff

[Fat Man Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fat Man]

Re: Heating WVO

Hi Geoff

I had a quote from a company in sydney for $190 + GST
for the following

stainless steel screw in emersion heater.

240v 2.4kw
1150mm overall length
900mm enersion
variable thermostats in variouse ranges
PVC box to house components
1 mt silicone rubber power lead

this unit won't burn out if switched on in solid WVO, the water tank versions may burn out as they get to hot before the oil liquifies, this unit is made to fit a 576 ltr square metal tank I have, it's an old houshold oil heating tank, an over the side unit would be cheaper and can be used in other drums etc..

look under Heating elements - Electric in your local Yellow pages

If you can't find any local suppliers for the right price ring these people:

Industrial Element & Heating Co.
Ph: 02 9519 7845
Fax: 02 9517 1613

I had 2 other quotes for $390.00 + GST as well

Regards
Fat Man

[geewizztoo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close geewizztoo]

Re: Heating WVO

When I started out, I was making 60L batches and I made my first tank heater out of an old electric frypan found in a pile of junk on council clean-up day.

These are ideal because it has the element cast into the base of the pan, so it is a good heatsink and spreads the heat over a large surface area. The element must be rated somewhere between 2000 to 2400W. It's made from aluminium but that's not much of a problem because it's Teflon coated and it's only used in the oil before the corrosive stuff is added.

I threw away the original plug & socket then bolted & soldered the electrical connections directly to the element. I insulated the connections by encapsulating the junctions in a big slab of silicone sealant then made a bracket to hang it from the rim of my barrel. This allows it to be submerged in the oil & can be adjusted for depth. The heater is lifted out before adding the methoxide, replace the lid & start mixing. This heats 60L of oil to 55C in about an hour.

I've moved up to a water heater now but I still use it for dewatering oil in 20L steel pails. I Heat the WVO to about 60C (takes~20mins), leave it stand for about 30mins for the water to sink, then pour off the top 15-16 litres or so for processing, so minimal heating required in the 'appleseed'. Collect the slops into another container for further settling and processing in the next batch.

[hdj80 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hdj80]

Re: Heating WVO

I only heat the WVO to get it moving to my pump because I mix it with solified fat.
I know people talk about dewatering but I am yet to find a need. I test all my oil prior to processing for water and have yet to find any (touch wood).

[WA-BIO Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close WA-BIO]

Re: Heating WVO

Hey Geoff, This may be late but I only heat my oil to 40/50 to help with filtering, I don't keep it at that temp at all during the methoxide addition. I heat the oil, filter it, add it to my mixing tank, add in the meth, stir for 10 minutes and leave to settle.
Tatey

[reg Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close reg]

Re: Heating WVO

Hi Folks,
I am making bd in 100 litre batches at the moment.
I have a 200 litre drum on a stand lying down with a big hole cut in to the side to allow me to put the waste oil in have a wire grate/basket lined with shade cloth which i filter the oil through to begin with .
It is fired by a 2 burner gas heater the sort you would put a camping pot on.
You can get these from hardware store for about $30.
With this alone it takes about 1 1/2 hrs to heat to 62+ degrees, i heat it to this temp so that when i transfer it to the processor it cools to just above 50.
To heat it further i got a large hand held immersion heater from an elecrical supply shop it plugs into a normal 3 pin outlet and works really well cost $110.
It will heat 20 litres of oil to 60 in 10 -20 min have not actually bothered to time it but it does work well.
As you can see i use both the gas and electric on the 100 litre batches actually heat about 120 litres to allow for water seperation if i feel it is needed, also it allows a space for all the crap to go to the bottom.
I do not wash the bd and it always comes out at about ph 8.
I am getting about 90-95% bd conversion.

[timorcoco Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close timorcoco]

Re: Heating WVO

Electric immersion elements made for heating water soon burn out if used for veg oil heating , the oil can't conduct/absorb the heat as easily as water.
Stainless-clad types specifically for oil must be used , so using the original element if you plan to use an old domestic water-heater is not good , and oil elements dont come in the same design to bolt onto the tank flange , they are generally a BSP thread . Maybe weld a female 2" thread cut from a 44 , onto the waterheater tank .
I have a bunch of stainless oil-type 1 1/4 " BSP elements 1500 to 2400 watt , slight use , if anyone wants one . They're 200 to 400 mm long . No thermostat , hook up through a cheap timer switch for safety .

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Heating WVO

A "Jug" heating element is 1800 watts, costs a couple bucks and are sold in many different shops.
Attach it safely to a piece of wood and dangle the element in the oil. Bubble air up with an aquarium pump to keep the oil moving.
Works excellently for heating 20 litre pails of oil, I never tried it in larger lots.

[Dave Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dave]

Re: Heating WVO

I have a bunch of stainless oil-type 1 1/4 " BSP elements 1500 to 2400 watt , slight use , if anyone wants one . They're 200 to 400 mm long . No thermostat , hook up through a cheap timer switch for safety .

What size batches would this be suitable for?


If anyone has any ideas on what I can do in Cambodia (where findin equipment is VERY difficult) I would greatly appreciate hearing them.

At the moment, Im considering preheating my oil with wood (ergh!), or gas, before filtering and transfer to reaction tank, but havent been able to find any suitable elemnts for the reaction tank....

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Heating WVO

Hello Dave

Unless you are in a very cold part of Cambodia you do not need to worry about heating in the reaction tank.

Tilly

[joe Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close joe]

Re: Heating WVO

Hello Dave

Unless you are in a very cold part of Cambodia you do not need to worry about heating in the reaction tank.

Tilly

Yeah I have been harnessing the suns energy for just this reason. A few hours in the sun and its warmed up enough. But my understanding is that although heating is preferred, its not essential. It aids and speeds the process but isn't essential. A warm sunny day in cambodia would be enough. You would definately need to heat to at least 30 however in other parts of the world in winter.

[timorcoco Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close timorcoco]

Re: Heating WVO

Dave in Cambodia : I got CNO up to 50C by leaving it in a long length of black poly irrigation pipe in the sun for a few hours. Had a pump but a hill works too.
perhaps make yourself a solar thermosyphon heater, maybe with a seperate heat exchanger coil in the processor.Please ,not wood fired!
What oil you got?
Any wattage heater works , some quiker'n others.

[timorcoco Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close timorcoco]

Re: Heating WVO

another thing Camdodian Dave , if you are making BD you'll have a lot of fuel left over from what goes in the genset- glycerine. Hard to get rid of but burns real hot! I heat my bush joint with it in a flued wetbacked stove made from a 60L drum , wth a copper coil/nozzle dripping onto a cast iron pot inside. Coil is in the stove,preheats the glyc , connects to a can of it outside.If using KOH glyc is liquid enough to flow.Cambodian temps wont let it thicken.
Search infopop forum re precautions- can produce nasties if not burnt well.