Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

[Guest Close Marc1]

I have been experimenting with Volume Plus Biodiesel on my Surf and have so far used it in less than 50% mix with BP or Mobile diesel. Hard to say what percentage of Biodiesel since I don't know the blend they sell and they dont know either.
There are no noticeable differences in power yet it has an annoying quality, it makes the engine harder to start.
Not that it is struggling or not starting, but I must crank it over for longer when with pure petroleum diesel it starts almost instantly, with 20-40% biodiesel at a guess and even with less in the mix, it needs a few seconds of cranking even after heating up twice.
Is this the norm with Biodiesel and nothing to worry about?
I wonder what will happen if I use 100% BD

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

I've noticed marginally slower starts on biodiesel, especially when cold. I often let my plugs glow a bit out of good practice (sometimes even twice). I think it might be due to the slightly lower flash point of biodiesel, but nothing to worry about.
You may also want to make sure that you have a good, clean fuel filter.

[dillyman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dillyman]

Re: Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

Hi Marc1,

I use B100, also had the same kind of less dramatic start up response. This seems to be the norm, especially on the cooler mornings (I am in Queensland) It does not however fail to start. The only starting problems I have found is that my Fuel Filter was blocking up. After a new filter to start with, I had to change my filter within a week. This was after less than 250 klms of local running, 3 weeks later, I started flattening my battery( 2 or 3 times) I thought it could not be the new filter. Electrics ok!! changed another filter and Hey Presto!! It seems that it is more related to the state of the fuel system ,how much gunk is in the tank and piping etc also how long it takes to clean out the system. I have been starting very well since my last filter, not instantaneously like with Dino but good start up. We must also remember that starting difficulties can be many other things also, worth remembering when we think of blaming the new fuel system.
Worth remembering is that BD is a fantastic cleaner of your engine systems. When I heard about this I did not realize just how good it was. Within 38 Klms of a full tank the difference was dramatic to say to say the least. The tacho was steady, engine quiter, this just got better as time went on.

Good Luck, and persevere, its worth it!

Dillyman

[jcaley Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close jcaley]

Re: Toyota Hilux cold start problems? check your glowplugs

I have been running my 95 Hilux dual cab on B100 for a few years and always have cold start problems in winter. My supplier told me that biodiesel needs to be winterised in winter, just the same as petro-diesel does. So that's what I've done for the past three winters by adding 10% kerosene or unleaded. Then I got talking to other users who had no cold start problems without winterising their fuel, even in the blue mountains. Other people told stories about Hiluxes that had winter start problems even on petro-diesel. Could it be that my beloved toyota is inferior to a, (disdainful look down my nose), cars like Holden Rodeos?

Another (bloody obvious) suggestion was made. The glow plugs, which were still original after 150,000 km might be dead. It is possible to test if all the glow plugs are dead by checking for continuity between the metal strip which joins them all and any major bolt on the head (click on photo to enlarge).


We tested this with with a multimeter and proved that the were not all dead. I.e. between 1 and 4 were good. But still it didn't like the cold start.

Finally I bit the bullet. the time had come to do the first work ever on my ute. Taking off the cover over the top of the engine, I was easily able to remove metal strip which connects them all. Then I could test each glow plug individually (shown below).


Only one glow plug still conducted current. So off to Repco for 4 new glow plugs for $22 each. The old glow plugs were really hard to unscrew, especially as my 12mm socket wasn't quite long enough. Once they were out, I could see why they didn't work! A new plug (top) is shown with two of the old ones.



The new ones were easy to screw in.

and the result? fantastic. It starts immediately on the coldest mornings so far (about 7 degrees). I'm not sure all the petrodiesel is out of the tank yet though. I can't believe I mucked around winterising my fuel for so long.

So if you are having cold start problems, (and I'm told biodiesel is more prone to this,but it might just be that it isn't winterised like petrodiesel) check your glowplugs.
Hints: Clean with blasts of compressed air before and during unscrewing the glowplugs so dirt doesn't fall into your pistons. I used a bicycle pump with a needle (for blowing up balls).

good luck

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

Brilliant post - thanks for that, especially all the effort of the photos - it really makes a difference (tells a 1000 words).
Glad to see a well thought out and acted response to a problem that has been raised by a few people before. I'm sure your post will be well referenced in future!

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

Thank you for the suggestion. Glowplugs are an easy start and I bet they are original will change them this w/end.

[mallcruiser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mallcruiser]

Re: Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

Hi Marc - I ran a 3L surf on B100 for 30K without any problems.

Remember that BD has a flash point of about 150degC compared to 61degC for mineral diesel so it may take a second longer to start.

If the glo plugs are 10 years old then they are probably due for a change anyway!

Go for the Bio!

Cheers,

[dillyman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dillyman]

Re: Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

Hi Guys,
To Jcaley,

Great Pics well done. I kept putting off it could be glowplugs, how stupid???? You just gave me the kick I needed thanks!

I would like to say that we are at times having lower temp in queensland and morning starting for me has been difficult. My BD is with the new conversion test coming it at high conversion rate, although I was ready to believe the bd was again blocking filter. Changed filter put that right . Guess what its happening again. Coincidentally, it only happens the first start up early morning. After that it starts first click of the starter every time the rest of the day. I bought 4 Bosch Glowplugs from Supercheap ( on special until Friday at $15.50 each) will fit tomorrow. will let you know, too easy to think it is the bd, bet it isnt though will let you know.

Dillyman

[jcaley Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close jcaley]

Re: Toyota Hilux cold start problems? check your glowplugs

Further to my above post about fitting new glow plugs, I definitely have no residual petro-diesel in the tank (all B100 now) and still firing straight away on cold mornings. It brings a smile to my face every time!

[Gunner Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gunner]

Re: Toyota Hilux cold start problems? check your glowplugs

So off to Repco for 4 new glow plugs for $22 each.

Maybe it's the BD=Alternative economy thing coming out in me, but I wouldn't be paying $22ea for glow plugs. A Search on e-bay revealed you can get them for as little as $20 for 4.

[Gunner Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gunner]

Re: Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

It may not be restricted to just Toyota diesels (in fact I found it on an Isuzu forum), but you can read the micro current OUTPUT from glow plugs to get the optimum tune from your engine. I'd like to give this a go sometime. See this forum page.

[goprisko Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close goprisko]

Re: Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

Dear Robert,

I am considering the purchase of a 96 HiLux Surf 3.0 Turbo diesel. Does anyone know where I can get specs, a manual, and some idea of the longevity of this engine? We live in Namibia where we must service everything ourselves.

Regards,

Dr. George goprisko@iway.na

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

Dear Namibia guy.
If you do not have access to parts and service forget the Toyota Surf Turbo. 96 or 2006 does not matter.

Choose a naturally aspirated non computerised vehicle. Unless you are a diesel mechanic forget diesel altogether and forget 4WD. Buy a F100 2WD carburated petrol and you will be able to fix it with a hammer, pliers and wire. It will go and go.

I live in Sydney and have a Toyota 96 turbo diesel.
I take it to a mechanic I have chosen among many local morons despite the fact that I use to be a qualified mechanic myself not that long ago.
I also take it to a diesel injection specialist with millions of dollars of the latest equipment for service. I took it a few times to a specialist body shop that has a special laser equipped chassis testing rack because the suspension developed a defect and the chassis needed to be straightened.

I had to modify the cooling system from factory standard to something that handles the local conditions, add cooling to transmission, modify suspension.... Did I mention how much this costs in parts and labour? Lets just say that most people would not do what I do and would simply brake down permanently with cracked heads. The cars and their own.

And last but not least, all of the above was done to my personal specifications since despite living in Sydney, because the Surf is imported the local Toyota reps and the majority of local mechanics know nothing about it and would not touch it.
In conclusion the Surf is not the car you do the service yourself, unless you are a very experienced mechanic,
owning or with access to testing facilities.
If you must go Toyota and you must go 4WD, try a Landcruiser or Hilux naturally aspirated, even when I think that a Patrol would do a much better bush basher.
Sincerely
Happy Surf owner

Read all about it here : ToyotaSurf Australia Site

[dillyman Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dillyman]

Re: Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

Hi Guys,

I previously posted in July las year on this issue. I had had similar issues with few more engine turns than on dino. Well I have been on B100 for 12 months now Home brew , no commercial sources here. I had similar issues. So after the first two Fuel Filter changes, (I didn't need the second I found later). I checked Glow plugs - changed them! Checked battery terminals, deep clean etc I also put a cheap super cheap auto pro in line filter at $1.99 each, and change them each month if I remember. Since this clean up I have have start ups as good as ever it was. Not missed a beat since. In fact Starts on first touch of starter, and I mean a 1 second touch. I have the 2.8 litre 3L engine. I would say it would be prudent to attend to good house keeping anyway and I you would try another source of fuel. Maybe someone else has tried the commercial fuel you are using from all accounts "Fuels aint Fuels"

Rgds

Dillyman

[Slippery Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Slippery]

Re: Toyota Hilux Surf 96 + Biodiesel

Goprisko,
I go with keep it simple. You want the easiest to maintain in that environment. All that Namib Dust. Go for a good old tried and tested Landcruiser or Hilux. I spent 5 years in that dessert. Mosses only lasted 40 days.

Hey, can you do me a favour, look up Derick and Janet Curtis in Windhoek and give them a hello from Nev in Aus.