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  • Using Lard oil

    Hey everybody, as a school science project we are attempting to make Biodiesel from lard, from a pork factory, the pork is steamed and then put ito tubs where it goes off for further processing , what is left, is Meat chunks, white fat (lard) geletine and a waterlike gravy all neatly seperated into layers by vicosity.
    After scooping off the lard we have heated it and let it stand at 30 deg c. adding 22% methanol and 3% lye to 75% oil we get a reaction. good seperation of glycerine and some white spots.
    on washing we use about 4litres of water to wash out most of the lye and then bubble the batch for 24 hrs to try to dry.
    on the settling stage we have a very clear BD and snow at the bottom of the jar can any body help find out what the white flakes are is it still soap?
    there are glucomates added to the meats prior to cooking.
    will the lard oil have a low FFA count as it is virtually new.

    Porks

  • #2
    Re: Using Lard oil

    Porks,
    You should test the lard to determine if you have FFA in the lard. By performing a titration you will then know how much caustic to add, to neutralise the FFA, if any is present.

    Lard had a high melting point (30 - 60°C) and biodiesel made from lard similarly has a relatively high melting point (10 - 38°C).

    As lard is a mixture of different fatty acids, including palmitic acid (MP 62°C), stearic acid (MP 70°C) and oleic acid (MP 13°C), some esters will solidify before others do. This generally shows up as white flakes in the biodiesel. These will disappear when the biodiesel is heated, or may be filtered out (at a temperature where they are visible) to allow the biodiesel to be used at temperatures where these flakes would cause filter plugging.

    I hope this helps your class project

    Tony
    Tony From West Oz
    Vice Chairperson of WARFA
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 31 March 2009, 10:47 PM. Reason: speeling
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
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    • #3
      Re: Using Lard oil

      the name has no resmblence to the physique.

      thanks tony , the biodiesel its self is crystal clear , after 1 day standing on the window sill .
      will the yeild be affected by the ffa in the lard?
      and will this need to stand longer before using it in my truck engine?

      Porks

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Using Lard oil

        Today I separated out the gravy , light oils and gelaine, the liquid was heated gently and poured through a muslin cloth sieve, I then added 7g lye and 200ml of methanol.we got no glyserine, only a cloudy emulsion floating on the top and some settling on the bottom.
        after seperating it off , i noticed it was a very pale colour and did not take long to wash out , almost not distinct line defining the oil from the wash water. I have bubbled it for 24 hrs ,and now heated it gently for 2 hrs at 60 deg to remove any more water that might have been left. will let it settle and do a 27/3

        Ps I tested the lard oil in my wap steam cleaner the flame is definitavly cooler than fossil diesel but none the less it heats the water fine
        will attempt a batch tomorrow with titration.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Using Lard oil

          Did you dry the lard bedfore processing?
          What process did you use?
          Did you titrate?
          What were your titration results?

          Regards,
          Tony
          Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

          Current Vehicles in stable:
          '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
          '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
          '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

          Previous Vehicles:
          '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
          '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
          '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
          '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
          '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
          '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
          '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
          '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
          '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

          Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
          Adding images and/or documents to your posts

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Using Lard oil

            Hey tony . Ill get those facts for you.

            porks

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Using Lard oil

              Hello I am sorry for the delay but was on leave for a few days.
              I boiled the lard oil for 30 mi ans the decanted it into a 5l bucket.

              the chopstick titration method used 1,8ml of fluid for the colour to change to metho purple .

              added 6,8ml of Na Oh to the 1l methoanol and 5l of lard oil, had the biggest disaster yet,
              I got 1 l of glycerine that went solid almost instantaneosly , and during the wash was nearly drowned in soap suds flowing out of the laundry, then the batch cooled and solidified into a sof whith grease.

              so<

              too much lye?
              too little Methanol
              added Methoxide to too cold a oil

              oh dear back to the titation.

              Porks

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Using Lard oil

                With regards to your last post, I might think that you mixture has gone cold before the conversion has taken place and its all gone solid again.

                Reading through you posts, there seems to be some confusion with your method.

                At the top you said something about "...at 30 deg c. adding 22% methanol and 3% lye to 75% oil".

                You should stick with millitres as your getting confused with your percentages (well your confusing me.)

                It should read "...when the oil was 50 degrees, we add 200mls of methanol mixed with 5grams of NaOH (+ titration if you believe fresh lard needs titration, but I wouldn't think so and if you think it does look up the blank titration first.) You must then mix well and MAINTAIN the 50 degrees for at least 30 and preferably 45 minutes.

                At a pinch you can get away with 4 ten second shakes over the course of an hour and still make fairly high quality biodiesel as long as the heat is maintained. I have had a 2 litre glass bottle with the entire mixture heated to 50 with the meth already added and only shaken it 4 times over 1 hour and insulated with an old towel. I used lard and the resultant bio/glyc was still at around 40 well after the last shake.

                Further along you said that the lard then titrates at 1.8. Again unless there is particularly harsh rendering of the lard, I wouldn't have thought that oil of any sort would contain that much FFA that would need neutralising. I have collected oil in the past that has had been independantly verified at less than 1 gram. So search for and do the blank titration test and also do another titration method to check your oil.

                1 litre of solid glycerine sound normal for NaOH. And as for washing stick with a day or two or dry bubbling before doing a water wash. That will reduce your chances of an emulsion.

                Go back to your basics. Work with dry oil, maintain your heat and skip the titration for the moment. That will only increase your chance of making soap.

                On the whole though it sounds like you on the right track. Hope your having fun with it. I know I still do even though I treat it as a chore. God knows it feels like one at times.
                Joe Morgan
                Brisbane Biodiesel Site Admin
                http://www.brisbanebiodiesel.com

                Searching tips using Google - SVO Dual tank systems
                SVO, Common Rail and Direct Injection - Vehicles converted to Used Cooking Oil

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Using Lard oil

                  Thank you so much for the encouragement,What started out a a simple grade 9 science project , has now become a hobby and I have had so much fun. so far.
                  I do believe that you are right in that the lard is fresh, and so a the F FA should be low.My best results were with 1 l of lard oil at 40 deg with 200ml of Meth and 3g of Na Oh.

                  so to ramp up to 5L do you suggest %l of oil 1L Meth and 30G of Na Oh constant heat for 1-2 hrs. and more patience.

                  Brad banks
                  howick
                  south africa

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Using Lard oil

                    Originally posted by Pork Power View Post
                    Hey everybody, as a school science project we are attempting to make Biodiesel from lard, from a pork factory, the pork is steamed and then put ito tubs where it goes off for further processing , what is left, is Meat chunks, white fat (lard) geletine and a waterlike gravy all neatly seperated into layers by vicosity.
                    After scooping off the lard we have heated it and let it stand at 30 deg c. adding 22% methanol and 3% lye to 75% oil we get a reaction. good seperation of glycerine and some white spots.
                    on washing we use about 4litres of water to wash out most of the lye and then bubble the batch for 24 hrs to try to dry.
                    on the settling stage we have a very clear BD and snow at the bottom of the jar can any body help find out what the white flakes are is it still soap?
                    there are glucomates added to the meats prior to cooking.
                    will the lard oil have a low FFA count as it is virtually new.

                    Porks
                    Hi,
                    I would increase the Methoxide levels as I have found that Solid fats require higher Methoxide for complete esterification.
                    I also found, that I need to react the Fats at higher temperatures, about 60C, to accelerate reaction and to push to completion.
                    I react using two stage alkali method.
                    I get much higher Glycerine yields that with oils.
                    Keep in mind, that the settled Glycerine contains, not only Glycerine, but Methanol, Soaps, Ester, and any unreacted Methoxide and Caustic.
                    After second stage reaction, allow to cool to room temperature, drain Glycerine, add about 10% water to Glycerine, and mix, then add enough 10% Phosphoric Acid to neutralise to chnage in colour of Phenolphthalein indicator from Purple to just clear.
                    Then add the neutralised wet Glycerine back into the reactor, pump around to mix for about half an hour.
                    Let it settle, and drain and separate off wet Glycerine layer thoroughly from the ester.
                    Then wash with bubble wash as normal.
                    Product should be OK after washing, and very little or no emulsions will form.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Using Lard oil

                      Hi,
                      Hi,
                      I would increase the Methoxide levels as I have found that Solid fats require higher Methoxide for complete esterification.
                      Methoxide is slang name for a compound of either KOH and Methanol or NaOH and Methanol. To which are you referring and are you referring to changing the tried and true amounts of reactant or the alcohol? Or both?

                      I also found, that I need to react the Fats at higher temperatures, about 60C, to accelerate reaction and to push to completion.

                      I'd dispute this as unnecessary and dangerous. This is getting too close to boiling the methanol (64.5 degrees) which can cause a splatter/caustic burning hazard as well as having methanol vapours filling the air which can increase the likeliness of inhalation or explosions. The users of the biofuels forum don't recommend heating the oil to 60 degrees to hasten or complete reaction. 50 degrees is enough to do the job.

                      Prehaps if you need to raise the temp of the oil, either your oil is cooling too quick when mixing, resulting in an incomplete reaction, or you titration is out resulting in an incomplete reaction. Consider reactor insulation or double checking you titration processes.
                      Joe Morgan
                      Brisbane Biodiesel Site Admin
                      http://www.brisbanebiodiesel.com

                      Searching tips using Google - SVO Dual tank systems
                      SVO, Common Rail and Direct Injection - Vehicles converted to Used Cooking Oil

                      Comment

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