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  • washing problems

    hi,
    i had to dump 3 trial batches because i gave up after "gentle shake washing" in plastic bottles. i now switched to mist washing (using a plant sprayer) and i processed 1 liter of oil (from a fish&chips shop).
    right after the reaction, i had 2 nice layers, the top being the of the much cited "amber" colour. after washing (3x mist washing, no visible soaps after 3rd go - so i thought i was done), the diesel looked like diluted orange juice - which is still okay according to the lit.
    however, i have been drying my batch now for 5 days (in the sun, bottle open) and it still is the same colour - murky'ish, definately less see-through than before washing.
    today i found that there is something at the bottom (see picture). i sucked it out with a pipette and it was ~ 10 ml, the pH was 5.5. i think it is water, pH is so low probably because of tiny amounts of soap.

    questions: 1) shall this amount of water worry me (it doesn't as only 1%).
    2) shall the colour of my product worry me (it does).
    thanks

  • #2
    Re: washing problems

    What I think you have is soapy Bio with water still coming out of it/drying.
    3 spray washes isn't enough in my book, I recon it needs more washing add 20% water and shake it up but not much just enough to mix the water in, then let it settle and see if more soaps come out. Do this again and again until you are shaking the B'Jesus out'a it. water and bio should seperate and water in the bottom will be clear.
    When I test my bio after washing I take a 250ml sample from the washtank add some water and sheke the crap out of it. Turns into Mayo but within 30mins is seperating and aslong as I washed it well the water at the bottom will be clear. i.e. you only need to be careful shaking the bio when there are soaps in there otherwise np.
    HDJ80 (aka Kiwipete)
    Canberra

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    • #3
      Re: washing problems

      I'm a bit concerned about a PH of 5.5 - that's acidic not alkaline.

      Do a pre-wash and you will reduce the number of washes.

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      • #4
        Re: washing problems

        Hello duschl

        Soap is caustic and has a pH over 7.
        If you did not put acid in the wash it is unlikely you will have anything in the bottle with a pH under 7.
        I would Use the World Famous Dr Pepper Wash Technique (Pat Pend)

        Tilly

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        • #5
          Re: washing problems

          following up my post and your replies:
          1) after i removed the 10 mL of water i let it stand for another day, waiting for replies from this forum. and the next day, the biodiesel was clear... but i was suspicious.
          2) i took a small sample as suggested by hdj80 and shook the crap out of it. and i had soap. so there you go...
          3) i washed the remaining diesel 4 more times - dr. pepper method. during the 4th wash i shook the bottle quite hard. i also made sure that i always washed the bottles in between the washing sessions to remove leftover soaps.
          4) when done, i mixed it with water and shook the crap out of it >>> i produced "mayo" and let it settle. eventually, after 24 hours it separated. but it is obvious that i should have done more washings!

          summary: I did 3 mistwash + 4 dr.pepper washs and this wasn't good enough.
          i don't get it. blokes like joshua tickell don't do any washing at all.
          on a large scale i can't afford doing 6+ stir wash, so maybe bubble washing is the way to go. i will try that next.

          thanks,
          duschl
          p.s.: i documented the separation over the 24 hours but can't upload pictures. i will send them to administrator and he might be able to add .pdf file later. (done now - Robert)
          Robert
          Administrator
          Last edited by Robert; 21 August 2006, 06:33 PM.

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          • #6
            Re: washing problems

            Duschl, please try a pre-wash the next time you make biodiesel. The pre-wash will get rid of about 75% of the soap. That will make the subsequent washes much eaiser.

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            • #7
              Re: washing problems

              will implement a prewash!
              by the bye: i washed the diesel shown in the 2nd attachement another 2 times. i then did the shake test and the "mayo" separated into diesel and clear water within 30 minutes...
              ta, duschl.

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              • #8
                Re: washing problems

                Duschl,

                The secret with washing is - just keep washing.....

                I mist wash my 150L batches in a 200L drum with 2 mist nozzles over the rop with a drain off the bottom using a standpipe. It usually takes about 8 hours of continuos washing to get to the point where the water falls straight through annd the colour darkens up.

                I usually then put about 50L of water in the drum - so it is nearly to the top - then run an aquarium bubbler in it for 12-24 hours. This "polishes" the fuel and gets the last of the soaps out.

                I then drain the water off - let it sit for a few days and it is done.

                Cheers,
                Paul
                Brisbane
                80 series TDi with 100K on B100
                2005 Audi A3 TDi B20-B50 60K on BD
                1993 Daihatsu Rocky - B100 20K on BD - all good!

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                • #9
                  Re: washing problems

                  I know that this is going to sound like I am whinging.... but what do you do with the water that you use in the washing??? just dump it or what??? I only ask this as I think I have found a place to start making this stuff but the only prob is that where it is we are on really tight water restrictions atm with only rain water and very limited bore water...

                  So basicly I am asking are you able to reuse the water in the washing stage of things....

                  Thanks
                  Adrian

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                  • #10
                    Re: washing problems

                    You could try this semi-waterless method:

                    http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/foru...1/m/2811039341

                    My appologies to those who've noticed that I've posted this before, but I've tried this method a couple of times with the 5% pre-wash and I've been impressed with the results.

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