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Guest · 20 August 2006, 07:35 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

I secured about 100L a week of this Frytol from a local fish and chip shop just last week.

The stuff I get comes in the original tins and has a layer of crud on the bottom about 4 inches deep on the bottom of every tin and they change the oil every day. I scrape the fat off the top till I get to the crud layer and then heat it over a fire in one of the frytol tins to melt the fat to filter it. I throw the crud on the fire which burns quite well and cuts down on the amount of wood I have to use to melt the stuff. I clean the tins with some glycerin and put the clean fat back in these after filtering through a layer of fabric.

To process 80 liters of the stuff this way before you even get to making bio out of it is messy and time consuming and requires a lot of heat.
Once the fat has cooled it is quite solid but still soft.

Just yesterday I took a sample of this stuff to a well bio experienced friend who titrated it at around 6.5 on KOH. We did a 1L test batch and it converted well. I put the test batch in the fridge last night and the oil had clumped into a white mass this morning but soon went back to a clear liquid after a few minutes in the sun.

As to wether you should pay for this stuff or not, That is something probably only you know. If there is no other supply within your area, then I guess buying the oil at this rate and processing it would still be a lot cheaper than buying diesel fuel. Perhaps I am lucky in that I have basically found more sources of oil than what I could use after only looking seriously for about 3 weeks so the idea of buying the old oil seems a bit rude but if this is all that is available to you......

As a suggestion, if this guy wants you to pay for the oil, I'd be asking for something in return like him filtering the fat for you, making sure it is water free and putting it into the size drums you prefer. I wouldn't like to handle a 200l drum of this stuff as heating it in that volume and doing anything with it would be a real challenge. I would think the 20L tins the stuff comes in would be much be easier to handle although maybe you would prefer to provide some 60L tins if they would be better for you.

Also make sure you get full tins if you are buying it by volume. In my limited experience I have found that 20L tins are rarely filled with 20 L of used oil as some is consumed in the cooking and whatever is left just goes back in the tin rather than the original amount.

Certainly I wouldn't be paying for it until you had exhausted all other possible supplies and even offered someone a lesser amount than 25C a litre. Having played with the stuff, I'd say that you will save a lot of time and effort if you could just locate a source of liquid oil even to blend the fat with rather than using the fat alone.

grien_machien · 20 August 2006, 10:26 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

Thanks David,

This is the first shop I have checked, so I think I will keep looking. I'm not really interested in spending a lot of time (and energy) on melting solid fats if I can avoid it. Hopefully I can source some liquid WVO, (and not pay for it!).

P.S. Is 6.5 a bit high for fat that has been changed daily?

Cheers,

GM

Captain Echidna · 20 August 2006, 11:10 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

I am unsure of your exact location, but the most westerly coastal town in victoria (Nelson) is not charging for tallows. The BP servo and the pub use tallows, and the pub was happy to give it away. Keep away from the Kiosk though, they use free flowing oil and I know the guy who picks it up well...

less westerly, there was a shop in Heywood that wanted to charge for its old oil. I think they had close to 2000 litres of the stuff there before they paid someone to collect it. I guess it is a supply and demand thing, be wary of paying for it, as you will set a precedent!

If you are happy to travel into SA to pick up high tritation canola/ tallow blend we PM me as I know a free source localy.

darren leonadas · 21 August 2006, 12:19 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

Please guys, stop pushing the market price of WVO up.!!!!
40 cents per litre is the limit where Virgin, (no crap , no high FFA) oil from the farmer becomes competitive.
Wait 'till you pay for WVO and get home to find its half water at the bottom!
I walk out of restaurants that want money for their wASTE, and can still find free WVO, I even had a restaurant contact us to say "we want you to take our oil 'cause you do something positive with it". Offer the restaurant the service of reporting to them your titration results, So the restaurant can have an idea of how they compete with other restaurants on Good Food.

grien_machien · 21 August 2006, 06:36 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

Nice one,

This is the kind of resonse I was hoping for!!

I was very disappointed with the initial foray into oil collection. I will give this bloke the arse and keep looking for free oil of good quality. I am certainly against paying high prices for what is essentially waste and agree with your concern for the precedent that this could set.

Cheers,

GM

Captain Echidna · 21 August 2006, 06:40 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

Darren where would you get the oil for 40c a liter? A guy who has been put onto me is considering paying for used at 60c a liter (filterd and water free he is told) until he gets going. If I could point hiin a better place I will.

hdj80 · 21 August 2006, 08:57 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

I am expecting the day will come when we have to pay for wvo but I hope it is because the renderer's are pushing the price up and not us Backyard Boys. So let us all get together and put a price cap on wvo now.
i.e. at the moment no one should pay anything for wvo, so that should be the cap... Am I dreaming????

I am hoping that us in canberra will get and keep together so that we can collect all the wvo we can and everyone can then distribute it amongst ourselves.. Does that make sense I hope so...Like a little co-op.

darren leonadas · 22 August 2006, 12:53 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

I Have been collecting WVO now for a little over two years and have watched the market change radically. When i started i was still getting the question from Chefs and restauranteurs "How much you gonna charge me to take away my waste.", Now its usually "I get paid Blah", the average is $35 per 44, that works out to be 17.5 cents per litre.
The Bottom line (from experience) for restaurants is.
1. Are you reliable?
2. Are you gonna get in the way of my business, or are you gonna come and go unnoticed.
3. Are you gonna leave a mess for my staff to clean up, or are you gonna do this cleanly and efficiently.
I witnessed an example of this when a young Canadian who once frequented this Forum, got onto Nando's restaurants, who are almost a macdonalds kind of empire. He was picking up from a restaurant across from their head office in Lygon street!!?, And to my total disbelief, Nando's still didn't have contracted Disposal

What an opportunity!!. So he rocks up to the restaurant with a load of buckets and a cut off plastic milk bottle to do the pickup scoop by messy scoop!

I then suggested we meet head office, but the damage was done and they told us to F#CK Off!
The best way to pick up is with a gear pump, hoses and a spike, and empty 44's on your trailer, Basically a suck trailer.
Please dont **** it up for future pickups.
AND remember the Half Nelson Clincher for restaurantuers--"You realise you have an EPA requirement for your WVO disposal, that can attract fines from the EPA if you dont conform?."

Guest · 22 August 2006, 05:25 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

Originally posted by hdj80

I am expecting the day will come when we have to pay for wvo but I hope it is because the renderer's are pushing the price up and not us Backyard Boys. So let us all get together and put a price cap on wvo now.
i.e. at the moment no one should pay anything for wvo, so that should be the cap... Am I dreaming????

I am hoping that us in canberra will get and keep together so that we can collect all the wvo we can and everyone can then distribute it amongst ourselves.. Does that make sense I hope so...Like a little co-op.

I agree that the right price to pay for what is essentially garbage is nothing. Paying for used oil is setting a precedent and will only serve to bite us DIY'ers in the bum in the future and the bite will get worse as time goes on.

I thought of competing with the collection companies by setting up a collection company co-op for Biodieselers a while back but once one starts thinking it through, the myriad of logistical and other issues make it a very difficult thing to be fair for everyone. Maybe on a scale of a few local friends who get together and share the work and proceeds it might work however.

Although I am not producing BD so far, I have started collecting oil in readiness and to get a bit of a stockpile together so I have some in reserve as I know my processing schedules are going to be anything but regular. I have been to 5 places so far and had no problem at all with them being happy to give their old oil to me although a couple I have dropped because their oil was too stinky or the tins were too grotty etc.
I think I already have a good workable " groveling " technique.

I sus out the place I am thinking of to try and get an idea of what they are using and how good it is likely to be. I then collect the kids from school and we go to the place to buy some chips for an after school snack.
(Yes, I know, not the most healthy thing but there is no doubt my boy could well use some fattening up so it's all good! )

3:30-4pm seems a good time to go as the places are quiet and it's easy to strike up a conversation with the cook about the weather, which then moves on to " So, Wadayadoo with yer old oil anyway?"
(For those of you who don't have angelic little spawns of Satin to help win over the shop owners, send in your girlfriend in a low cut top and all done up and then ask the male boss.)

So far 2 of the places I have gone to say a collector comes for it every 2 weeks or so and I ask If they would mind if I got some. So far the response has been to the effect of " help yourself, I don't care who takes it away"
No one has yet asked what I want the stuff for and I don't bother trying to go into a sales pitch once the "sale" has been made to tell them which only arouses looks to the effect "you must be some kind of out there nut".
I just try to let them know I am fair Dinkum and make firm arrangements so they know they won't be wasting their time and neither will I be.

The places I am getting it from all put it back in the 20L tins or buckets so collecting it is no problem. I have arranged specific times I come to get the oil so they can put it out for me if need be. One place just puts the tins outside the back door so I go by to collect that every couple of days as they use 7-10 tins a week. I have worked out when the collector comes so I make sure to get there the day before I haven't been there already.

Another place was putting it by the dumpster in lidded plastic buckets for me but the garbage guy, probably thinking he was doing the restaurant a favour, threw it in the dumpster and took it away for them. Now I have made arrangements with the restaurant owner to put it in a small back shed which is locked ( they told me where they hide the key so I can get access any time) and i go fetch about 60L of oil every 2 weeks..

I don't have any mess issues as I get all the oil I am collecting in tins so there is no spillage or anything but I would still stress to people to make sure they leave no mess as this will piss off the restauranteurs you are getting the oil from faster than anything and as already said, fk it up for other people.
I take the time where possible to even do a little clean up if there is any rubbish around and to stack any empty tins or buckets neatly as I can. This way the people know I have been for all the right reasons not the wrong ones and 5 minutes of my time goes a long way in keeping them well on side.

It is true what you learn about these places from their old oil. The fish and chip shop we previously frequented has been given the flick along with their grotty oil ( and I went and thanked them for what they gave me but told them I would no longer be requiring it) because the other place that is giving me their very clean oil, not surprisingly has much nicer food. I make a point of going into the place at least once a week to get dinner for the family or just $4 worth of chips for the kids and tell the cook or owner that I'll just go collect the old oil and put it in the car while my order is cooking and will be back in a minute. This way they are getting to know me and that I am supporting them even in a small way.

I am collecting about 150L of oil and fat a week although I have discovered the oil I am getting from the main supplier is titrating a little higher than ideal even though it is obviously very lightly used and clean. I'll keep looking for other suppliers of better oil but keep getting what I can in the meantime as I have a use for the clean but high tritation oil anyway. I am going to do a blend of all my 3 oil supplies and see what tritation I finish up with as it may work out fine as is.

I guess I am lucky in that I have had no trouble finding more oil than what I can use and there are still other places I have scouted but had not needed to approach so far. I have been able to supply another BD'er that has been good enough to take the time to show me the ropes and I want to secure an adequate ongoing supply for both of us as he has a little difficulty in finding a regular sufficient qty for his needs.

If I amass too much oil which is pretty likely in the not too distant future, I'm sure that an occasional " Come and get it" post here will soon take care of any excess supply

Jacka · 22 August 2006, 06:48 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

Originally posted by David

If I amass too much oil which is pretty likely in the not too distant future, I'm sure that an occasional " Come and get it" post here will soon take care of any excess supply

I'd be up for that

Down this way it is very challanging to get Oil that is not being bought back from the shops! I think in the past there was a local making use of all the waste oil and the collectors were getting jack of driving all this way to get 50L of oil at a time instead of about 150L so I think they decided to pay some money for it

The city seems to be the place were oil comes from easy but I am never around so Oh well.

dillyman · 22 August 2006, 10:20 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

Guys,

The sentiments about paying for oil is on the nose. I had to compete with the pros for collection, but eventually he moved his drums because I was getting it all. Reason, I believe I am taking away their waste oil for free, notwithstanding that, I won because, guess who keeps the area clean with a bottle of glycerine and a carboy of water, No other words are spoken, I haven't actually seen them in weeks spoke to a staff member about loose spillage, I got an apology and and helpful friendly assistance. NOTHING IS FOR NOTHING, THE WAY YOU RESPECT THEIR SITUATION CAN I BELIEVE BE RECIPROCATED. (Not always I am sure - but set a standard and an example, and stand out against the others) "A Believer"

Rgds

Dillyman

grien_machien · 22 August 2006, 10:40 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

Wow,

There have been some fantastic responses here. I will certainly be taking the wisdom I have gained from this thread with me when I am looking for sources of oil.

Thanks heaps,

GM

darren leonadas · 22 August 2006, 10:57 PM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

Originally posted by dillyman

Guys,

The sentiments about paying for oil is on the nose. I had to compete with the pros for collection, but eventually he moved his drums because I was getting it all. Reason, I believe I am taking away their waste oil for free, notwithstanding that, I won because, guess who keeps the area clean with a bottle of glycerine and a carboy of water, No other words are spoken, I haven't actually seen them in weeks spoke to a staff member about loose spillage, I got an apology and and helpful friendly assistance. NOTHING IS FOR NOTHING, THE WAY YOU RESPECT THEIR SITUATION CAN I BELIEVE CAN BE RECIPROCATED. (Not always I am sure - but set a standard and an example, and stand out against the others) "A Believer"

Rgds

Dillyman

"Take along some glycerine" to aid cleanup of any spills. BRILLIANT,, BRILLIANT,, and i mean that in the Guiness advertising sense. I might post this on the "what do we do with our glycerine" thread. Not only can we offer a titration result to restauranteurs to show how they rate on the good food (FFA content) rate, also we can offer the Chef of the restaurant a cheap and cheerful floor wash!. BRILLIANT!!, now thats a winner that makes us far more competitive than the Shampoo sham pro's.

Guest · 23 August 2006, 12:21 AM

Re: Collecting Frytol oil

Originally posted by darren leonadas

We can offer the Chef of the restaurant a cheap and cheerful floor wash!. BRILLIANT!!, now thats a winner that makes us far more competitive than the Shampoo sham pro's.

It is an excellent idea if you produce liquid Glycerin.
Give them our waste in exchange for their waste! Each is worthless product to the producer, but very useful to the other party!

The leftovers that most BDer's struggle to come up with a way to effectively dispose of is actually a valuable commodity to the resturant owners. Detergents and the like are expensive and if they could substitute some Glycerin for just one of these detergents, it is money in the bank to them.

Even if they just use it to clean floors or their outside areas, it saves them buying something else. They could also use it to clean their air filters and exhaust hoods which get real greasy.

I would suggest that those that don't filter their oil too fine before reacting may like to run their glycerin through some cloth before they give it to the resturants so there are no left over particles they have to try and mop up off floors etc. which would greatly undermine the value and usefulness of it. If they don't find it powerful enough, you could always mix in a bit more KOH to give it more bite.

If a resturant owner asks for payment for their oil, You could explain that while you don't pay for waste oil, one of the things you make with the oil is a powerful industrial degreaser/ Floorwash/ whatever... and you would be glad to supply them an amount of that in exchange for their oil.

If that don't win them over, then they are greedy bludgers and you can find someone less mean spirited to have a mutually benifical working relationship with. :0)

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