100% Ethanol-compatible vehicles

[phoenix Biofuels Forum Newbie Find all posts View Profile Close phoenix]

I've heard that "ethanol-only" vehicles (as in Brazil) aren't available in Australia (even though they're manufactured here) because they're all exported!

Can anyone please confirm/correct this shock!

[vegehilux Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vegehilux]

Re: 100% Ethanol-compatible vehicles

Yes Mate,

I heard that outrage on TV from some Brazilian ministers mouth.

That they buy ethanol ready Holdens from Australia.

Meanwhile our polititians (after happily telling us that ethanol will wreck your car), would probably describe Brazil as a "corrupt" country.

And we eat it as fast as they can shovel it..........

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: 100% Ethanol-compatible vehicles

I am ready to bet the only difference between an ethanol holden and a non ethanol holden is wether it gets the "ethanol aproved" sticker or the "no ethanol" sticker on the fuel filler door.

[Robert Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Robert]

Re: 100% Ethanol-compatible vehicles

I'm told that Ethanol burns at a higher temperature to petrol therefore the metals used need to be suitable (valves etc). I know that with LPG conversions they used to request stainless steel valves & seats. Not sure whether these are now standard, but if not, then that may explain the slightly higher cost of manufacture.

Additionally, hoses and seals need to be able to resist any corrosion. It may also be that the materials used for normal petrol vehicles are already resistant.

Lastly, the timing needs to be altered (so what as it is already all electronic anyway.)

The only other consideration is some sort of a sensor to measure the % of ethanol present in the blend and calibrate the car's timing accordingly. This is what the "flex fuel" vehicle is all about - being able to run on any blend and have the car work out the optimum settings to run with it.

This is just anecdotally what I have heard, so someone please correct me or offer some better info.

[Captain Echidna Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Captain Echidna]

Re: 100% Ethanol-compatible vehicles

LPG's problems are maily related to it not having lead in it (which helped heat transfer from the valves to the head) and it being a gas as it entered the engine, not turning into a gas in the engine like petrol, which takes a lot out of the engine. Knowing a lot of time in manufacturing it is cheaper to stock one part than stock 2 sets and use 2 sets, I would imagine all parts would be ethanol compatible.
As for timing, my last spark ignition car was on LPG and petrol. The timimg would automatically advance as far as possible, which was one reason its gas consumption was nearly as good as it petrol. The disadvantage is it would run like a goat when you switched back to petrol, as the advance was way out. It would learn soon enough and go back to being normal.

[Guest Close Marc1]

Re: 100% Ethanol-compatible vehicles

I'm told that Ethanol burns at a higher temperature to petrol therefore the metals used need to be suitable (valves etc). I know that with LPG conversions they used to request stainless steel valves & seats. Not sure whether these are now standard, but if not, then that may explain the slightly higher cost of manufacture.

Additionally, hoses and seals need to be able to resist any corrosion. It may also be that the materials used for normal petrol vehicles are already resistant.

Lastly, the timing needs to be altered (so what as it is already all electronic anyway.)

The only other consideration is some sort of a sensor to measure the % of ethanol present in the blend and calibrate the car's timing accordingly. This is what the "flex fuel" vehicle is all about - being able to run on any blend and have the car work out the optimum settings to run with it.

This is just anecdotally what I have heard, so someone please correct me or offer some better info.

You are correct. Argentina had 50% ethanol blend back in the 70ties in the north of the country where the sugar crops are and the conversion offered to motorist was fuel pump and lines, valves and valve seats plus tuning. And that for absolutely any car, American or European.

[Biofuelsimon Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Biofuelsimon]

Re: 100% Ethanol-compatible vehicles

You might also want to look at the fuel lines and gaskets. Ethanol is chemically different to gasoline and so it is probable it'll take a chunk out of these components if they're made of the wrong kind of rubber.

Not sure what I'd recommend to change to though...

[Alga Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Alga]

Re: 100% Ethanol-compatible vehicles

THis an interesting article which shows how stupid the authorities are here regarding 100% ethanol vehicles, if they can do it with racing cars it should be easy to do it for most cars

Indy cars ditch petrol for ethanol. 17/01/2007. ABC News Online