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View Full Version : can you use to much lye - Soap Making using byproduct



l312ain
11th September 2010, 02:17 AM
could you use 2x what you need in your biofule, for random reasonwhat would this do


could you use a extra wash cykle to remove the extra ?


whats the saturation point of lye in methono.l how much lye can i gal methonole hold?

joe
11th September 2010, 07:46 AM
try it and advise. My feeling is you can use too much and you run the risk of making gloop.

smithw
11th September 2010, 04:04 PM
English Please!

l312ain
13th September 2010, 12:35 PM
My feeling is you can use too much and you run the risk of making gloop.

the main reason is i want to make "clear" soap with the glycol by adding the wash water from the bio but the lye amount is to little

Tony From West Oz
13th September 2010, 01:27 PM
I suggest that if you wish to create a post about making soap, then somewhere in the first post you should mention that you are wanting to make soap.
All the replies you received were in relation to making biodiesel, whidh is the section of the forum in which you posted.

You have wasted the time of those who replied!

I have made soap from the byproduct and it worked well, but was very dark in colour.
I have made soap from the filtered oil and it looked creamy yellow.
I have not been able to make "clear" soap, but I believe that you need to use refined glycerol in its manufacture.
What you have is a combination of burnt food bits, glycerol, methanol and caustic (the base amount - unused catalyst)

To make refined glycerol:
The byproduct would need to be filtered.
The byproduct should have the methanol removed.
I believe that the caustic in the byproduct should be neutralised.
You then need to vacuum distill the glycerol to purify it.

Then you can make "Clear" soap.

Regards,
Tony

l312ain
13th September 2010, 08:15 PM
from
Instructions for Clear Glycerin Soap (http://www.millersoap.com/glycerinsoap.html)

this recipie works well and it already has alcohol in it bio uses more alot more
but !!! we use less lye...this can happen in the Methanol reclamation chamber as a part of the process haven't sat down and revamped the recipe yet neded to know if i could use the extra catlist in the bio to skip re adding it... also i wanted to know if you could use a

a side efect is that the Methanol in the wash water is added to the
the reclamation chamber to be stilled off and re used to see a marginal increase in methanol reclamation

the soap i need to make i know wont be clear it will be chocolate brown at best... but its 110% green so thats makes all the difrance
************
Here are my recipe and instructions for very transparent soap. It's based on Catherine Failor's method, which assumes that everyone can find grain alcohol, which is 95% ethanol (etoh). I can't, but I do have access to a special rubbing alcohol which contains 70% etoh (and 30% water). That's what you need for this adaptation.


13 oz lard + 1 oz stearic acid
-or 14 oz tallow
-or 14 oz palm oil
-or 14 oz lard
(pick one of the above 4 choices)
*
5.4 oz coconut oil
8.3 oz castor oil
4 oz lye
5 oz distilled water
*
13 oz ethanol at 70%
3 oz glycerin
*
8 oz sugar
5 oz water
Make soap as you usual way from the first ingredients, down to and including the 5 oz water. If you use stearic acid, don't include it just yet. When the oils are at 145F and the lye is at 135F (give or take a few degrees) add the lye to the oils. Let the soap reach a medium trace, and if you are using stearic acid, melt it separately and add it now. It will probably form small lumps, but don't worry about them. Assuming you are using a saucepan for this, cover it and set it into a larger pot of hot water. Leave it there for a couple hours while it goes into a gel phase. If it isn't too solid to be stirred, then stir it up halfway through. This is the slight problem I mentioned earlier. Failor's recipe uses more water in the lye, and the soap stays liquid enough to stir it in the gel phase. Because I had to reduce the water, the soap solidifies, but it's all right in the end. Try mashing it a little with a potato masher.
My batch is one-third the size of Failor's. If you increase the size, then you can probably do without the large pot of hot water. Just wrap the soap pot in blankets to let it get hot.
After two hours, the soap should be as completely saponified as it needs to be. Put a little of it in a glass of water and let it dissolve. If there is a lot of oil on top, leave the soap on the heat for a while longer and then test again.
When the soap is ready, break it up with a potato masher, if it's solid. Add the alcohol and glycerin. Stir it up, break up the soap even more if you can (or have to) and cover it. Try to keep the cover on as much as possible so the alcohol won't evaporate. Set the soap pot back on the hot water and wait for the soap to dissolve. After it does, if you see any large chunks, break them up, but do it quickly.
Eventually there will be nothing but little pieces floating in a skin of soap on top. Scoop this up and throw it out. Or set it aside.
Boil the remaining water and add the sugar to it. When the sugar is COMPLETELY molten, pour this into the soap. If there are still undissolved sugar crystals, they will probably form cloudy spots in the soap, as it cures. Stir, cover and wait for the temp to come down to 140F - 145F. When it does, you can now do what you want. It's cool enough for the alcohol not to evaporate, nor to damage your FOs and EOs.
Any plastic molds work great. Milky Way molds, and the kind they sell at North Country, and chocolate molds, for example. I also made molds by taking a small mini-loaf tin, about 4"x2", and, with the tin upside down, wrapped the bottom and sides with tin foil. That way, the foil can be peeled off when the soap is hard. And the soap doesn't react with the aluminum, as cp soap does.
If you do decide to scent and color individual bars, have the FO and dye ready before you pour the soap, because a skin will form very quickly. I did individual bars with different colors so I would have enough variety to make stained glass soap, but you can scent and color the whole batch all at once.
When the soap is cooled down to room temp, you should be able to peel off the tin foil. It's best to put the soap in the fridge. If you used plastic molds, you may have to freeze them to get the soap out. This doesn't hurt the soap at all. The faster the cooldown, the better!
Give the soap about two weeks to dry and become even more transparent and longer-lasting.
*

Tony From West Oz
13th September 2010, 11:01 PM
-or 14 oz lard
(pick one of the above 4 choices)
*
5.4 oz coconut oil
8.3 oz castor oil
4 oz lye
5 oz distilled water
*
13 oz ethanol at 70% The alcohol in the biodiesel process is Methanol, you really don't want to use Methanol make soap

3 oz glycerin This is bought glycerin ie: it is refined and transparent.

*
8 oz sugar
5 oz water


There would be insufficient caustic in the byproduct to make soap, otherwise the byproduct would be soap.

For the amount of glycerin in the recipe, you wouldn't make a dent in the byproduct from a one gallon batch of biodiesel.
You need 27.7 oz of oils/fats, in addition to the 3 oz of glycerol.

I suggest that you try the recipe, using Ethanol and the byproduct from making biodiesel and post a report on the outcome.
Please take photos of the process.

I think I will move this discussion to a more suitable section of the forum.
It is not related to "making biodiesel", the title of this section.

Have Fun

Tony

l312ain
14th September 2010, 07:43 PM
could you use 2x what you need in your biofule, for random reasonwhat would this do


could you use a extra wash cykle to remove the extra ?


whats the saturation point of lye in methono.l how much lye can i gal methonole hold?

i orignly left it out on why i wanted to do this becous i thought it had nothing to do with the qustion of could you use 2x what you need in your biofule, for random reason. what would this do. two vital questions that im missing but thanks for all your help

Tony From West Oz
15th September 2010, 12:59 AM
i orignly left it out on why i wanted to do this becous i thought it had nothing to do with the qustion of could you use 2x what you need in your biofule, for random reason. what would this do. two vital questions that im missing but thanks for all your help

If you use 2X the amount of caustic you will get a batch of soap - like stuff, commonly known as Gel or Jel.
You will not get a good result. Even if the biodiesel separated, your yield of fuel would be significantly reduced over the optimal proportions.

Keep soap making separate from fuel making.

Regards,

Tony