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Jeffrey S. Brooks
30th March 2011, 05:10 AM
I have been doing biofuels research with an old 6.2L diesel engine for four years. My method is blending gasoline with vegetable oil at 20% gasoline/80% Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO).

I find the STANADYNE DB2 Injection Pumps are failing after about 9 months on the above fuel blend. I believe the problem is one or more seals inside the Injector Pump are failing due to the presence of alcohol in my blend, because in regions were alcohol is not blended into the gasoline, bio-blenders do not tend to have failed injector pumps. In my region alcohol is commonly blended into gasoline at 10-20%, which means my bio-blend includes 2-4% alcohol, which is most probably ethyl, but might be methyl alcohol. At that percentage of alcohol there might be a problem with seals.

1) Does anyone here agree with my conclusions?
2) Does anyone know if there is a rebuild kit for the STANADYNE DB2 Injection Pump that can handle biofuels (alcohols)?
3) It would be very useful to my research if I could rebuild these pumps myself, so that I can see what is going wrong with them. So, does anyone know where I can purchase a repair manual and rebuild kit for this pump?
4) Is anyone here experimenting with bio-fuels on a 6.2L/6.5L diesel engine?

tbird650
30th March 2011, 06:31 PM
Jeffrey
That's bad news about the IP.
I'm not familiar with the stanadyne though I see it's a rotary pump.
I've been doing the vege for about 8 years, and starting with 20% ULP.
It was some time later that I found that 20% was much more than what was needed.

Both my Hiaces have rotary style pumps and have not failed, replaced or been rebuilt.
I consider that they've taken a lot of abuse with gallons and gallons of fuel over a long period. There's been no alcohol content to the fuel even when I ran ULP blends.

I'm interested to know just what is going bad on your pumps. Is it seals? Is it caused by corrosion? Have the IP's strainers been cleared?(always the 1st thing to check)

Alcohols are known to attract water but it's no more of a problem than for those using the fuel as it was intended. I'd be surprised if it was a lubricity problem as the 80% vege is more the enough. The seals should be viton and here (http://www.fbs-online.com/Centre/Prod/Viton-chem-com-res.htm) is an interesting compatibility chart covering wide range of chemicals and their effect on viton.

More specific info on the pump please...

craigcurtin
30th March 2011, 08:12 PM
Geoffrey,

I have a DS-4 in my 6.5L.

I am currently running BIO and straight Vegoil, but intend to add a 3rd tank that will be for a blend.

I have succesfully run a blend of various strengths in my Toyota Surf for the last 2 years.

My plan with the 6.5 is to have a BIO startup tank, a Blend tank for short trips and a Vegoil tank for long trips.

I will keep you updated on my progress.

have you visited the DieselPlace forums - they have everything there is to know about the 6.2/6.5L engines - both wiith Ds-4 and DB-2 pumps

Craig

Jeffrey S. Brooks
31st March 2011, 01:12 AM
Thanks Craig, I posted my inquiry to the Diesel Garage, I will try the Diesel Place next. It would be most useful for resolving my problem to know how much alcohol, if any, is added to gasoline/petrol wherever you are.

How I make my blend of 20% gasoline (petrol) and 80% WVO is I blend them in a tank, then let them settle, then I drain off the sludge before processing, and if there is any water in that sludge, then it is most probably also taking some of the alcohol in the gasoline with it.

I am presently looking into using another solvent for thinning my WVO that does not have ketones or alcohols in it, which tend to be hard on seals and hoses. Gasoline has been my first choice all along, because it takes half as much gasoline as diesel for the same thinning effect, and kerosene (paraffin) is more expensive than gasoline in my region. Also, 20% gasoline lowers the gel point to below 0F (-18c), while still firing up on the first crank without the use of a block heater, like it was a warm day.

My IP rebuilder has been rejecting my injector pumps. I believe it is something he does with everyone who is experimenting with biofuels. I do not think he wants to be bothered with the residues from biofuels, especially when he can get all the injector pumps he wants from the junkyard at low prices here.

Anyway, since he was not going to give me a rebate on my core, I asked him for it back, so that I could see what was wrong with it. He sent me back a bag full of parts that I do not believe came from my injector pump. But, I noticed a red colored seal on the main shaft.

I know from experience that red colored seals tend to be silicone. If there is a silicone seal inside the STANADYNE DB2 Injection Pump, and it is in contact with the fuel, then it is most definitely going to swell in the presence of alcohol, but my alcohol content is only 4%. Nonetheless, I believe at this time that alcohol is the problem. If so, then I will have to find another solvent to use other than gasoline (petrol) with WVO, or add water to my blend prior to settlement to remove the alcohol from the gasoline.

Today I received an email back from my injector pump repair tech. He thinks my blend is still too viscous with 20% petrol in it, and he believes that is my problem. Maybe that is the problem, especially since the last batch was indeed more viscous than usual, because I had added a gallon (4L) of gear oil, which is very viscous, but I had not added more gasoline to thin the blend out more. So, perhaps I just need to add more gas.

I also noticed that even though I settle my fuel blend, and filter down to 1-micron, I am still getting a fair amount of sub-micron particulate settling out after a few days. I noticed when I opened up the dead IP it was coated with a fine coat of free-carbon, which is this sub-micron particulate passing through my filters, so maybe that is the problem.

Any more ideas?

craigcurtin
31st March 2011, 08:53 AM
Jeffrey,

here in australia most of us that blend do so to get the required viscosity for consistent operation. I personally would never start my 6.5L from cold on a blend.

From what i have read the weakest part of these engines is the pump - although the later model DB2's are meant to be bulletproof.

I would suggest you might talk to Kennedy Diesel - they are experts on all of these motor/pump combos.

My plan is to start on BIO all the time and then switch to my blend tank after 2 minutes of idling - the blend will consist of WVO, BIO and ULP - i will not put ethanol based fuel into this mix - although i may be forced to that in the future by the Gov.

The reality is that if i have to use twice as much BIO as ULP/RUG to get to a similar viscosity i am still ahead as my BIO has a cost to me of 40 cents/litre. and ULP here costs around the $1.30 to $1.40 per litre

Craig

Nuddy
31st March 2011, 04:36 PM
Just appling logic. Apparently alcohol and WVO don't mix. If the petrol has alcohol mixed in, when it is mixed with WVO would the alcohol separate out? If it does separate out would it float on top of the WVO/petrol blend or would it sink to the bottom. If it floats on top then it should stay in the fuel tank unless it is run nearly dry - that is, no problem. If it sinks to the bottom then the fuel pickup should pick up straight alcohol or perhaps a mixture of alcohol and water.
This would of course be detrimental to the IP but wouldn't it also give running problems - that is, would a diesel run on straight alcohol or a mixture of alcohol and water?

craigcurtin
31st March 2011, 10:29 PM
Jeffrey,

Can you advise what your collection/filtering regime entails.

Also what heat mechanism do you have in the truck ? Are you attempting to start the car from cold on the blend ?

Craig

Jeffrey S. Brooks
1st April 2011, 10:41 AM
Just appling logic. Apparently alcohol and WVO don't mix. If the petrol has alcohol mixed in, when it is mixed with WVO would the alcohol separate out? If it does separate out would it float on top of the WVO/petrol blend or would it sink to the bottom. If it floats on top then it should stay in the fuel tank unless it is run nearly dry - that is, no problem. If it sinks to the bottom then the fuel pickup should pick up straight alcohol or perhaps a mixture of alcohol and water.
This would of course be detrimental to the IP but wouldn't it also give running problems - that is, would a diesel run on straight alcohol or a mixture of alcohol and water?Yes, alcohol is more hydrophilic than it is lipophilic, so that if one were to put alcohol and vegetable oil together in a container and shake, the two fluids will begin to separate in a few minutes. And, alcohol will not blend readily with gasoline (petrol) either. However, the petroleum industry has found that by adding some other component to a blend of gasoline and alcohol they can force them together.

My guess is, since alcohol is hydrophilic, then it will most probably join with any water that is present in the blend, and if so, then it will precipitate out and settle to the bottom with the water that it joined with.

craigcurtin:
How I make my blend of 20% gasoline (petrol) and 80% WVO is I blend them in an external processing tank, then let them settle for a few hours, then I drain off the sludge that settles to the bottom of the tank before filtering the blend down to 1-micron through a bag filter, and if there is any water in that sludge, then it is most probably also taking some of the alcohol in the gasoline with it. Most of the particulate in my WVO also settles out at this time.

Changes that I plan to make in my process:
I have recently noticed that there is a fair amount of sub-micron particulate that is settling out from my blend after a few days. This suggest to me that I should let my blend settle for more than a few hours, and maybe as much as a few days to reduce this sub-micron particulate.

Also, it is now clear to me that Stanadyne does not offer a bio-fuel friendly rebuild kit for their injector pumps. So, in the short term I am going to locate a source of some solvent that is like gasoline (petrol) but does not contain alcohol or ketones in it. Kerosene and paint thinner come to mind.

Perhaps we could have a write-in campaign with Stanadyne to force them to offer a bio-fuel friendly rebuild kit for their injector pumps. They would have to replace all silicon and buna seals with Viton or Teflon seals.

Corporate Headquarters
Stanadyne Corporation
92 Deerfield Road
Windsor, CT 06095 USA
Phone: 860-525-0821
Fax: 860-683-4500

tbird650
1st April 2011, 01:52 PM
What's actually gone bad with the IP. Has it leaked or worn out, or is it a blockage? Can you determine any cause from the parts? Was it rebuilt 9 months ago or a second hand item?

craigcurtin
1st April 2011, 07:19 PM
Geoffrey,

Get onto Dieselplace and also get in touch with Kennedy diesel.

There are a number of people running BIO in their 6.2L/DB2 combos - as such if what you are surmising (in relation to the seals being non alcohol friendly) is true then no one would be able to run BIO in their units.

It sounds like you are trying to take shortcuts with your filtering setup.

Instead of doing what you are try the following

1) Let the oil settle for as long as possible
2) Filter to 1 micron (Cold filtered) prior to blending
3) blend and then let settle - this is the way i do it and i do not find any addition droupout etc in my blending/storage tank.

If you are concerned then "polish" the blend by circulating for a few hours through a 1 micron bag filter.

What fiiltering/heatiing setup do you have in your car ?

Craig

Jeffrey S. Brooks
2nd April 2011, 03:50 AM
What's actually gone bad with the IP. Has it leaked or worn out, or is it a blockage? Can you determine any cause from the parts? Was it rebuilt 9 months ago or a second hand item?tbird650, the symptoms of my 4-5 failed injector pumps has always been the same for the last 4 years. After 6-9 months on my 20/80 petrol/wvo fuel blend is the pump just stops pumping fuel through it. I have disassembled the pumps as much as I can without a manual to figure out the problem, because I find the fuel control solenoid is still working. The first three pumps had the screen plugged with tar-like lacquer. However, removing the tar-like lacquer did not get the pump working again. I beleive the the tar-like lacquer had glued the IP shut. I have since modified my process to eliminate the tar-like lacquer.

The last 2-3 failed IPs had black particulate on the surfaces of the inside of the pump, but the screen was clear. That black particulate is sub-micron, because I bag filter my processed fuel through a 1-micron bag filter.

The first 3-4 replacement IPs were rebuilds. The last pump was a pull from a junker extracted 9 months ago.

craigcurtin:
How I make my blend of 20% gasoline (petrol) and 80% WVO is; I select settled WVO from a restaurant, I then blend it with gasoline (petrol) in an external processing tank at 20%, agitate the solution by driving around (my WVO fuel processing system is mobile), then I let the solution settle for a few hours, then I drain off the sludge that settles to the bottom of the processing tank before filtering the solution down to 1-micron through a bag filter, and if there is any water in that sludge, then it is most probably also taking some of the alcohol in the gasoline with it. Most of the particulate in my WVO also settles out at this time. I have calculated the alcohol content cannot be more than 4% of my blend.

It is my belief that the sludge that I drain off contains most of the water in the WVO. My evidence is I have a water sensor in my fuel line. It never indicates water present in my fuel. I have a 5-micron filter in my fuel line, which contains hydrosorb. So far that filter has not plugged since I have employed the above processing method. I believe I can safely conclude that my processing method eliminates water and most of the particulate.

Now, most people who are terrified by the idea of recycling waste vegetable oil to make diesel fuel will be convinced that obviously the cause of my injector pump failures is making fuel out of recycled vegetable oil. And, most people who are terrified by the idea of adding gasoline (petrol) to a diesel engine will be convinced that obviously the cause of my injector pump failures is the gasoline.

Changes that I plan to make in my process:
I have recently noticed that there is a fair amount of sub-micron particulate that is settling out from my blend after a few days. This sub-micron particulate could be the cause of my injector pump failures, and not the presence of alcohol at 2-4% of the blend. This suggests to me that I should let my blend settle for more than a few hours, and maybe as much as a few days to reduce this sub-micron particulate.
 But, it would be nice to know how well the Stanadyne DB2 diesel injector pumps do with particle loads below 1-micron.

Another conclusion is the alcohol present in the gasoline at 10-20%, which becomes 2-4% of the blend, is the cause of my premature injector pump failures. The solution is to find a readily available solvent that has similar characteristics and price to gasoline, but does not contain alcohol.

Gasoline has been my first choice as a solvent all along, because it takes half as much gasoline as diesel for the same thinning effect, and kerosene (paraffin) is more expensive than gasoline in my region. Also, 20% gasoline lowers the gel point to below 0F (-18c), while still firing up on the first crank without the use of a block heater, like it was a warm day. I am presently looking at paint thinner or kerosene as possible blend solvents.

It would be nice to know that the rebuild kits for Stanadyne DB2 diesel injector pumps were biodiesel friendly; however, I have found no definite evidence that Stanadyne has modified their rebuild kit, and my persistent problems with failing recently rebuilt Stanadyne DB2 diesel injector pumps tells me that Stanadyne has not modified their rebuild kit.

I have read on other biofuels forums that a lot of people have been having trouble burning biofuels on Stanadyne injector pumps. Since it is now clear that Stanadyne does not offer a bio-fuel friendly rebuild kit for their injector pumps, then perhaps we could have a write-in campaign with Stanadyne to force them to offer a bio-fuel friendly rebuild kit for their injector pumps. They would have to replace all silicon and buna seals with Viton or Teflon seals.



Corporate Headquarters

Stanadyne Corporation

92 Deerfield Road

Windsor, CT 06095 USA

Phone: 860-525-0821

Fax: 860-683-4500

craigcurtin
2nd April 2011, 04:13 PM
Geoffrey,

You seem to have this idea in your head that the seals are the problem - however you stated that last time it was the internals of the pump that were gunged up ?

If the seals were gone/going wouldn't that lead to the inability of the IP to provide pressure to the Injectors as well as fuel leaking out of the pump ?

Why do you want to filter "mobile" - why do you want to speed the process up by mixing with RUG/ULP prior to filtering step ?

I do not see anything in your system is that dewatering your oil ? other than belnding with Petrol and hopefully that doing it for you - highly doubtful this would be the case for suspended water

What heating system do you have in your car ?

Do you start and stop on this blend ? i.e. leave the blend in the IP all the time - rather than flushing with Dino/BIO ?

Craig

tbird650
2nd April 2011, 06:10 PM
Did a search on stanadyne. It appears they are of simmilar type to Lucas/CAV which have the reputation to be risky on veg.
Here's also a great thread (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/632092-stanadyne-rotary-ips-on-svo.html) with interesting info on the IP on veg. May well be that you've already found it?
No doubt there's ways and means you can extend the useful life of an IP.
Can you manage any pics of the parts? I for one would like to see what we're puzzling over.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
3rd April 2011, 02:15 AM
Geoffrey, You seem to have this idea in your head that the seals are the problem - however you stated that last time it was the internals of the pump that were gunged up ? If the seals were gone/going wouldn't that lead to the inability of the IP to provide pressure to the Injectors as well as fuel leaking out of the pump ?Yes, craigcurtin my injector pump tech made the same conclusion from my message to him. However, if you download the seal kit from Stanadyne you will find there are a boat load of seals inside their DB2 IP. All you need is one seal that is related to pressurizing the fuel to fail. So, no, there has not once been a sign of fuel leakage from my replaced injector pumps. However, in every case the pump has failed to pump fuel through it at all. Not even a dribble.

Why do you want to filter "mobile" - why do you want to speed the process up by mixing with RUG/ULP prior to filtering step ?I am a field archaeolgist, which means I have to be mobile to make a living, therefore my WVO processing system has to be mobile, and why my WVO processing has to be relatively fast.

I do not see anything in your system is that dewatering your oil ? other than belnding with Petrol and hopefully that doing it for you - highly doubtful this would be the case for suspended water Well, craigcurtin, that is how much you know about adding gasoline to WVO. Try doing it sometime. One of the things that does not seem to be well understood by my bio-fuels colleagues is I am a blender, and I am observant of my process, and I have observed that when I add a solvent, such as gasoline (petrol), to WVO it causes various contaminants in that WVO, such as: water, animal fat, and particulate, to rapidly precipitate out of solution. I have observed that most (90%) of that contamination precipitates out of solution in just a few hours, which means one does not have to spend weeks settling or up-flow processing WVO, one need only add a solvent, wait a few hours or days, then filter the solution. I am just learning that if I let my solution settle for 12-48 hours instead of 3 hours, then most of the sub-micron particles will precipitate out of solution as well.

It is my belief that the sludge that I drain off contains most of the water in the WVO. My evidence is I have a water sensor in my fuel line. It never indicates water present in my fuel. I have a 5-micron filter in my fuel line, which contains hydrosorb. So far that filter has not plugged since I have employed the above processing method. I believe I can safely conclude that my processing method eliminates water and most of the particulate.

What heating system do you have in your car?I am a blender, therefore my fuel does not need heating.

Do you start and stop on this blend ? i.e. leave the blend in the IP all the time - rather than flushing with Dino/BIO ?

CraigThis is actually a good topic. Yes, I have a two-tank system that I installed in my van. No, I do not switch fuels at start-up and shut-down. Therefore my IP is sitting with my blend in it all of the time. If I switch over to petroleum diesel at shut-down, then my IP would not have the blend in it, which might solve the problem, if alcohol in the fuel blend at 2-4% of the solution is causing damage to internal seals in the IP. However, at present I am not doing a lot of traveling, so if I started up and shut down with diesel fuel, then there would hardly be time to run on my blend. A two-tank system is best for long haul, and useless for short trips. From experiments I have done it takes about 5 minutes once fuels have been switched for the new fuel to enter the injector pump. On the other hand, if all I need to do is get petroleum diesel through my IP to flush out my blend, then I could rig something that does that a lot quicker. I will ponder your excellent suggestion today.

craigcurtin
3rd April 2011, 02:59 AM
Yes, craigcurtin my injector pump tech made the same conclusion from my message to him. However, if you download the seal kit from Stanadyne you will find there are a boat load of seals inside their DB2 IP. All you need is one seal that is related to pressurizing the fuel to fail. So, no, there has not once been a sign of fuel leakage from my replaced injector pumps. However, in every case the pump has failed to pump fuel through it at all. Not even a dribble.
I am a field archaeolgist, which means I have to be mobile to make a living, therefore my WVO processing system has to be mobile, and why my WVO processing has to be relatively fast.
Well, craigcurtin, that is how much you know about adding gasoline to WVO. Try doing it sometime. One of the things that does not seem to be well understood by my bio-fuels colleagues is I am a blender, and I am observant of my process, and I have observed that when I add a solvent, such as gasoline (petrol), to WVO it causes various contaminants in that WVO, such as: water, animal fat, and particulate, to rapidly precipitate out of solution. I have observed that most (90%) of that contamination precipitates out of solution in just a few hours, which means one does not have to spend weeks settling or up-flow processing WVO, one need only add a solvent, wait a few hours or days, then filter the solution. I am just learning that if I let my solution settle for 12-48 hours instead of 3 hours, then most of the sub-micron particles will precipitate out of solution as well.

It is my belief that the sludge that I drain off contains most of the water in the WVO. My evidence is I have a water sensor in my fuel line. It never indicates water present in my fuel. I have a 5-micron filter in my fuel line, which contains hydrosorb. So far that filter has not plugged since I have employed the above processing method. I believe I can safely conclude that my processing method eliminates water and most of the particulate.
I am a blender, therefore my fuel does not need heating.
This is actually a good topic. Yes, I have a two-tank system that I installed in my van. No, I do not switch fuels at start-up and shut-down. Therefore my IP is sitting with my blend in it all of the time. If I switch over to petroleum diesel at shut-down, then my IP would not have the blend in it, which might solve the problem, if alcohol in the fuel blend at 2-4% of the solution is causing damage to internal seals in the IP. However, at present I am not doing a lot of traveling, so if I started up and shut down with diesel fuel, then there would hardly be time to run on my blend. A two-tank system is best for long haul, and useless for short trips. From experiments I have done it takes about 5 minutes once fuels have been switched for the new fuel to enter the injector pump. On the other hand, if all I need to do is get petroleum diesel through my IP to flush out my blend, then I could rig something that does that a lot quicker. I will ponder your excellent suggestion today.

Geoff - i too do blend so i understand many of things you are saying. If i can draw some conclusions/inferences from what you have said

1) You are an archaeologists and therefore mobile - i would assume form that that you collect oil from a number of sources - how can you be sure of the quality of this oil ? _ it may be worth your while to do a HPT before blending too see how wet the oil is

2) obviously if you are truly mobile then one would assume that only minimal settling of the fuel is happening i.e it is being sloshed and remixed all the time in the vehicle

3) Why not make a 50 litre batch processor that would filter, polish and dewater all in one - 3 tanks in the back of your car - collection tank - whatever size was appropriate, filtering/dewatering/polishing tank and a 3rd tank for blending a storage

If you had these as 3 60 litre drums in the back of your UTE you would be able to have 180 litres on the go at any time. If you wanted more capacity then have the collection tank custom made or a 44 gallon drum.

Rig up a FPHE to the filtering dewatering drum, a gear pump or a good pump like a mallory 4140 to push through a series of filters for polishing, and a vacuum setup to lower the presssure and promote boiling off of any water at a lower temperature.

For the sake of $100 i would seriously look at adding a FPHE into your truck to give the pumps a fighting chance - as well as a way to flush out with either bio or diesel at the end of a trip.

I would also look at a number of the additives available to stop many of the issues you are describing.

I also remember one of the guys on Dieselplace giving his IP a "spa" treatment - he hooked up a can with 1/2 ATF and 1/2 BIO - routed the feed and return lines to it and let the engine run until the fuel was all gone.

Craig

Jeffrey S. Brooks
4th April 2011, 12:05 AM
Geoff - i too do blend so i understand many of things you are saying. If i can draw some conclusions/inferences from what you have said
1) You are an archaeologists and therefore mobile - i would assume form that that you collect oil from a number of sources - how can you be sure of the quality of this oil ? _ it may be worth your while to do a HPT before blending too see how wet the oil is
My point is blenders do not have to deal with de-watering their WVO, because adding petrol to the blend forces water out of solution. Therefore an HPT test is irrelevant. Also, while you and a few others seemed to think my mechanical problems are due to the presence of water in my fuel. I find no evidence there is any.

2) obviously if you are truly mobile then one would assume that only minimal settling of the fuel is happening i.e it is being sloshed and remixed all the time in the vehicle
Yes, since my bio-fuels processor is mobile then there is a minimal amount of time involved in settling my fuel blend before processing. As I have already stated I have observed that about 90% of the contaminants settle out within only 3 hours of settling. So, one of the myths I am attempting to dispel is those who blend with gasoline do not have to wait for weeks to settle their WVO before blending, although it helps if one can do it.

Obviously 3 hours of settling my 20/80 blend, while eliminating 90% of the contaminates, is; nonetheless, insufficient time, because of the load of sub-micron particles. So, maybe settling my blend for 12 to 24 hours will be sufficient, but most probably not weeks.

Also, I replaced my injector pump yesterday and started up my engine and found it still struggling at a cold idle, which was the original symptom before the injector pump died. My conclusion now is the injectors were plugged, which caused the IP to fail, so it was not alcohol at 1-4% in my blend that killed the IP, although it may have exacerbated the problem.

With the injectors coked it brings to the forefront the sub-micron particle load in my WVO-based fuel blend as the possible cause of this mechanical problem. In the last year and a half I have replaced my injectors three times. I have since learned how to clean them myself. So, I will pull my injectors today and replace them with a set I cleaned last summer.

This means that a 6.2L/6.5L diesel engine with Stanadyne IP can not handle sub-micron particles at the levels my process has allowed through. It is not a lot, but it is apparently too much. We are therefore again at the point of recognizing that increasing the settling time is important. So, I will try 12 hour settling times to see if that significantly reduces the sub-micron particle load down to a level that the injectors/IP can handle it.

3) Why not make a 50 litre batch processor that would filter, polish and dewater all in one - 3 tanks in the back of your car - collection tank - whatever size was appropriate, filtering/dewatering/polishing tank and a 3rd tank for blending a storage

If you had these as 3 60 litre drums in the back of your UTE you would be able to have 180 litres on the go at any time. If you wanted more capacity then have the collection tank custom made or a 44 gallon drum.

Rig up a FPHE to the filtering dewatering drum, a gear pump or a good pump like a mallory 4140 to push through a series of filters for polishing, and a vacuum setup to lower the presssure and promote boiling off of any water at a lower temperature.

For the sake of $100 i would seriously look at adding a FPHE into your truck to give the pumps a fighting chance - I have a 20-gallon (80L) mobile processor already. Why do I need another one? Do you get that blending before processing decreases settling time? Or, do you think that blenders have to process their WVO the same way two-tankers, and biodiesel users process their WVO? Maybe, we blenders can figure out a processing system that is unique to our process and takes advantage of our methods. Instead of blindly doing everything the way others do things.

as well as a way to flush out with either bio or diesel at the end of a trip.

I would also look at a number of the additives available to stop many of the issues you are describing.

I also remember one of the guys on Dieselplace giving his IP a "spa" treatment - he hooked up a can with 1/2 ATF and 1/2 BIO - routed the feed and return lines to it and let the engine run until the fuel was all gone.

CraigNow, Craig, your recommendations represent a whole lot of mythology that I observe persisting in the biofuels world. Every biofueler seems to have some magic snake-oil process that they employ that they swear will reduce coking of their valves and sludging up their IP. Is it worth considering that just adding gasoline at some level, then settling for some period of time before filtering does all of the "spa" treatments one needs for one's diesel engine?

Tony From West Oz
4th April 2011, 12:43 AM
Jeffrey,
Why do you believe that the fouled injectors were caused by "sub micron particles" in your fuel?
Surely the manufacturer of the IP recommends a fuel filter which will protect the IP and injectors from blockages caused by poor fuel quality. Surely the vehicle maker follows these recommendations.

Are you using the specified fuel filter?

I have long recommended the use of "cold filtering" of the veggie oil fiels to remove particles much finer than the filter rating. This is supported by many on this forum wwho have long vehicle fuel filter life when using "cold filtered oil"

If you are concerned about "sub micron" particles in your fuel, "cold filtering" prior to blending may be a solution for you.

Regards,
Tony

Jeffrey S. Brooks
4th April 2011, 01:31 AM
Jeffrey,
Why do you believe that the fouled injectors were caused by "sub micron particles" in your fuel?Because I filer my fuel blend down to 1-micron, but I have found there is sub-micron particles making it through, and my injectors were coked last summer, when I was burning WMO that was blended then filtered down to only 5-microns, and the current symptoms indicate the injectors are coked, but I have not removed them to make sure that is the issue.
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j411/jhananda/Bio-fuels/Injector12.jpg

Surely the manufacturer of the IP recommends a fuel filter which will protect the IP and injectors from blockages caused by poor fuel quality. Surely the vehicle maker follows these recommendations. Are you using the specified fuel filter?Why do you assume, Tony, that I am not using the factory installed OEM fuel filters in my fuel line? Of course I am. However, the factory was assuming people were burning diesel fuel from the petroleum industry, and not a backyard recycling effort, which is going to have contaminants that are below whatever level of filtering is taking place. I have also installed two sets of traps in my fuel line that I have found will trap precipitates that make it through my 1-micron bag filter.
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j411/jhananda/Bio-fuels/Airandsedimenttrap32.jpg

I have long recommended the use of "cold filtering" of the veggie oil fiels to remove particles much finer than the filter rating. This is supported by many on this forum wwho have long vehicle fuel filter life when using "cold filtered oil"

If you are concerned about "sub micron" particles in your fuel, "cold filtering" prior to blending may be a solution for you.

Regards,
TonyWell, my point is that blenders can use blending to their advantage, which can reduce their settling time substantially by blending first, then settling, then filtering. I just have to find out how long settling time is required. Apparently 3 hours of settling is not enough, especially when there is some WMO in the blend. So, next is 12 hours of settling.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
4th April 2011, 02:17 AM
Here is a photograph of the sub-micron sediments after processing 40-gallons (160L) of Waste Vegetable Oil blended diesel fuel, which I believe might be the cause of my coked injectors and/or the recent death of my injector pump.
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j411/jhananda/Bio-fuels/sediments23.jpg

Tony From West Oz
4th April 2011, 10:34 PM
How long did that sediment take to build up to that level?
Have you had it analysed to identify what it is?
I would venture to suggest that there may be other reasons why your injectors have coked up.
eg Long periods of idling or Oil too cold (despite blending coking can occur with cold fuiel and / or long idling).

Remember that they did this on motor oil AND on vegetable oil blends. I would suggest that this indicates the problem is something other than the fuel in use

Cold filtering does not take a lot of manhours - fill the filter vessel (or if using a sealed filter vessel, fill the header tank) and allow the oil to pass thru the high melting point oils lining the filter, then thru the filter. The filter will not get blocked by particles, just by the fats. The oil will percolate through the fats and come out highly polished. If you require greater thruput, then add more filters in parallel.
It only requires only one pass thru the filter and you can clean the filter by a hot clean oil (60 - 80C) backflush into a waste fat drum. When the fats have solidified, the oils can be decanted from the top for subsequent filtering.
No one I know who uses cold filtering has experiencesd a issue with short life of their vehicle fuel filter .

I am happy that you have found a method which you like.
I can't understand why you like it so much with the problems you are having with your IP.

I am not trying to change your mind, just explaining a different filtering method which could suit you and overcome some of your issues.

I doubt that it will do anything for your coked injectors though.

Regards,
Tony

Jeffrey S. Brooks
5th April 2011, 01:43 AM
How long did that sediment take to build up to that level?I am not sure, because I noticed it after the fact. I am guessing it might have been a few days of settling. I plan to pay more attention to it and try various waiting periods after blending and before filtering. My next experiment is going to be a settling period of 12 hours before filtering.

Have you had it analysed to identify what it is?Well, like everyone else who is on these biofuels forums, I do not receive funding for my research, other than what I put into it myself, so sending a sample off to a analytical lab is out of the question. So, I can only speculate what it is, and since it came after the 1-micron bag filter, then it seems reasonable to assume it is sub-micron in particle size. And, since it is black, then at least a major component of it is free-carbon.

I would venture to suggest that there may be other reasons why your injectors have coked up.
eg Long periods of idling or Oil too cold (despite blending coking can occur with cold fuiel and / or long idling). Remember that they did this on motor oil AND on vegetable oil blends. I would suggest that this indicates the problem is something other than the fuel in useWell, that seems like a reasonable alternative. My driving habits since I last replaced the injector pump has been to drive the van five minutes twice a day, and I live at nearly 6,000 feet, so the winters can be a bit cold here, down to 0F (-18c).

However, the last tank of fuel I made I added a gallon of used gear oil to, which a friend gave me. It was after that that the engine began to be difficult to start, and idled rough until hot, than ran fine, but got worse as the days progressed.

Yesterday I pulled the injectors and they were indeed heavily coked. So, my conclusion now, since I found the injectors coked, is the injector pump failed due to coked injectors, and the injectors were coked up by adding a gallon (4L) of gear oil to my fuel blend. And, alcohol in the gasoline that I used to blend with may have had nothing to do with the problem.

Cold filtering does not take a lot of manhours - fill the filter vessel (or if using a sealed filter vessel, fill the header tank) and allow the oil to pass thru the high melting point oils lining the filter, then thru the filter. The filter will not get blocked by particles, just by the fats. The oil will percolate through the fats and come out highly polished. If you require greater thruput, then add more filters in parallel.
It only requires only one pass thru the filter and you can clean the filter by a hot clean oil (60 - 80C) backflush into a waste fat drum. When the fats have solidified, the oils can be decanted from the top for subsequent filtering.
No one I know who uses cold filtering has experiencesd a issue with short life of their vehicle fuel filter .Since I do not heat my WVO-gasoline blend before filtering, I therefore must be cold filtering.

I am happy that you have found a method which you like. I can't understand why you like it so much with the problems you are having with your IP.

I am not trying to change your mind, just explaining a different filtering method which could suit you and overcome some of your issues.

I doubt that it will do anything for your coked injectors though.

Regards,
TonyWell, Tony, we are all pioneers here. So, you are really proud of your method, and I am happy for you. My method works pretty good for me, I just have to work out a few issues.

Most of the problems I have had with my methods in the last year have all been related to experiments with recycling WMO and used gear oil. So, I do not believe that your conclusions about the superiority of your method over mine are justfiled. It seems I am just a little more experimental than you are. And, I bring my problems to the forum to discuss them; whereas you do not seem to do that.

craigcurtin
5th April 2011, 10:48 PM
Jeffrey,

Are you looking for advice or just trying to let us know how smart you are.?

So far you have taken a derogatory/derisive tone with everyone who has commented on this thread.

By my count you appear to have gone through 4 sets of injectors and 3 injection pumps in the last twelve months - yet you claim your system works ? Evidently by your own words it does not.

You seem to be confusing reduced viscosity of your fuel with the ability to burn it correctly within the engine.

You would appear to have two issues - injection pumps and injectors.

Your injection pump is obviously not liking what you are doing to it - if as you seem to be convinced is the case that it is alcohol within the fuel that is causing the issue then wouldn't everyone who uses BIODIESEL also experience the same issues due to the methanol content within the fuel ? This is clearly not the case.

Based on the available postings on the net it would appear that the DB2/DS4 stanadyne pumps are particularly delicate when it comes to running alternate fuels - why you would persist in running non-heated fuels and starting and stopping on a blend is a mystery to me.

You have just stated that for the recent past you have been doing short trips only - yet persist in telling us you must have a mobile processing setup ? Why ?

If your trips are short then bite the bullet and make Biodiesel - when your trips pick up again then go back to blending but start and stop on BIO or DINO

Craig

Tony From West Oz
5th April 2011, 10:53 PM
And, I bring my problems to the forum to discuss them; whereas you do not seem to do that.
I do not have any issues with injector coking or filter blockages.
I can't recall any other issues except fuel hoses which degrade over 4 - 6 years and the usual maintenance issues on a 28 year old car.

My method works for me.

Regards,
Tony

cuppatea
5th April 2011, 11:15 PM
Was wondering if anyone was going to pull harder on the reins. Entertaining so far until the penny drops.
Not saying anyone is right or wrong but the methods Tony use are not wholly his own. A good number follow those principles and refine them to the point where they are happy with the outcome.
Treat everyones ideas and opinions with respect and always keep an open mind I say.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
6th April 2011, 01:28 AM
My advocacy of blending gasoline (petrol) with WVO has garnered me far too many offensive remarks in the more than 5 years that I have been active on bio-forums. I have been banned from at least three forums just because of my blending practices.

Even blenders on other forums are often so proud of their all-too-narrow methodology that they are often quick to run my experiments down while raising their flag on top of my apparent failure. It makes it difficult to share, and I have seen all too many blenders resort to keeping their experiments to themselves, which does not serve the larger community of biofuels experimenters, and especially blenders, who are always the under-dog on every biofuels forum. Look at this forum. There is no blending forum here.

So, please excuse my rejection of some of the advice given here. Just because that advice was given by someone who has been blending a long time does not necessarily make it right, or correct, or relevant to my experiments. And, me rejecting a piece of advice does not necessarily make me wrong, or narrow, or closed minded.

craigcurtin
6th April 2011, 02:17 AM
Jeffrey,

Einstein said - "the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

I would suggest you go back and read the tone of some of your remarks to both Tony and Myself and you might begin to see why you get banned from forum after forum.

Why do we need a separate forum for blending - if the threads are popular enough in the SVO forums they will rise to the top.

There is definitely no BIAS on these forums against blending.

You must be a very rich man if you can afford to experiment with your day to day automobile over a 5 year period and have the same failure rate as you have been experiencing in year 5.

You may feel that you are pushing the envelope in terms of blending technology - but i think as has been witnessed by your strings of mechanical failures - you may be better off "treading softly softly monkey".

Although you do not want to hear it - based on many peoples experience on this and other forums do the following

1) Cold filter your oil to 1 micron - allow to settle as long as possible before filtering - if possible put an upflow system in front of the first set of filters

2) time is on your side with cold filtering - lets the bags gather as much fat as possible - they will filter even better - put more in parallel if you need better throughput. I load 200 litres per week into my system, it sits for 1 week before going through an upflow settling tank and into a 5 micron filter bag, then through a 1 micron filter bag - this all happens with 20 minutes work each week when i pour the 200 litres from 20 litre drums into my system - come back at the end of the week and the previous weeks oil is waiting to be pumped into the car.

3) Install heating into your fuel lines in the car - it can not hurt - you have a 6.2L so you have plenty of room under the bonnet.

4) Start and stop on BIO or DINO not a blend - or you will continue to kill stanadyne pumps


Craig

Jeffrey S. Brooks
6th April 2011, 10:53 AM
Thanks craigcurtin, for your really useful recommendations. Just know that since I have been active on the biofuels forums for more than 5 years, and I have advocated blending petrol with VO for the entire time, then know that anyone who blends does so with my considerable contributions to the practice.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
5th August 2011, 09:30 AM
So here is an update to this thread. It turns out that every time my injectors and/or injector pump has failed was because immediately before that failure I had experimented with making diesel fuel out of Waste Motor Oil (WMO).

A few weeks ago I began experimenting again with WMO to understand it better. Rumor has it that WMO and WVO are incompatible, so I pumped out my main 30-gallon (120L) fuel tank, then processed 20 gallons (80L) of black diesel into that fuel tank. The engine ran fine for three days, then there was a precipitous loss of power and increase of smoke from the exhaust. That weekend I pulled my injectors and found them coked shut. I replaced those injectors with a set that I had coked up from previous similar experiments and had cleaned in lacquer thinner. The engine ran much better, but has not returned to its former glory, so this weekend I plan to pull the injector pump to see if its internal screen is plugged and/or the pump is toast. I plan to have a replacement injector pump ready.

So, in conclusion, alcohol in the fuel blend had nothing to do with the IP and injector failures, and everything to do with the incompatibility of WMO and WVO. Blending this different oils together produces a precipitate of about 10% of the solution. The precipitate is primarily free carbon solids and liquid lacquers, together they make a rubbery like glue the glues up the injector pump and cokes up the injectors.

tbird650
5th August 2011, 11:36 AM
JSB. What was the wmo blend made from? I mean what oil types i.e. gear oil, hydraulic oil, engine oils etc. Was any oil from diesel engine sump? Did you blend with your normal 20% ULP?

Also the previous IP failures: Has it been determined which actual piece or part gave up? Can the failure/s be described as seizure, blockage, breakage, wear, corosion, etc? Any pics would be cool.

Am just trying to understand better. As you said this game is highly experimental so the thought is, we can benefit by helping each other.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
6th August 2011, 01:21 AM
I have tried posting a thorough reply to you several times; however, the system is not accepting my reply.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
6th August 2011, 01:24 AM
JSB. What was the wmo blend made from? I mean what oil types i.e. gear oil, hydraulic oil, engine oils etc. Was any oil from diesel engine sump? Did you blend with your normal 20% ULP?

Also the previous IP failures: Has it been determined which actual piece or part gave up? Can the failure/s be described as seizure, blockage, breakage, wear, corosion, etc? Any pics would be cool.

Am just trying to understand better. As you said this game is highly experimental so the thought is, we can benefit by helping each other.tbird650, in the last experiment I made up a 20-gallon (80L) blend of 80%WMO from a motorcycle shop with 20% petrol. I pumped out my main 30-gallon (120L) fuel tank, which meant there was 3 gallons left in the tank. I had settled the blend for at least a few days, and had extracted about 10% from the bottom of the tank, which was thick, black sludge. I then filtered the remainder through a 1-micron bag filter into that fuel tank. The engine ran fine for 3 days. On the fourth day I noticed significant power loss and smoke. I tried adding solvents (lacquer thinner and MEK) to my fuel blend, and replaced my fuel filters. There was marginal improvement. That Sunday I pulled my injectors, which were only a few months old. This is what they looked like:

All previous injector failures looked similar in appearance.

In all cases I also found a dark amber sludge that had accumulated to my fuel lines. Here is a pic:


The screen inside the injector pump typically looks like this:


This is what the sludge that I removed from the fuel tank a few years ago looked like:


On close examination of the sludge that is the product of blending WMO with WVO is it is at least two different components. There is a dark solid that I believe is free carbon, which globs together at the bottom of the tank. then there is a thick, sticky, dark liquid, which I believe is lacquer. They join together to make a rubber-like substance at the bottom of the tank. And, they are not soluble in petroleum distillates, but they are soluble in lacquer thinner or MEK.

The precipitate is about 10% of the blend. My most recent sollution was to pump out the tank, then add 4 gallons of petrol, then pump it out again, then add 3 gallons of lacquer thinner, circulate that through the fuel lines, then pump it out. In past experience that method proved to be successful, so I assume it has been successful.

However, replacing the injectors alone has only improved performance, but not brought the engine back to full performance. I plan to pull the injector pump when I have a replacement handy. At that time I will inspect the injector screen. If it is plugged I will clean it and re-install it. If the screen is not significantly blocked, then I will replace the injector pump with a pull from a wreck.

Past replaced pumps had failed for unspecified reasons. I have yet to learn how to fully dismantle the pump, but I am looking for a service manual and rebuild kit. I have two previous IPs that I can rebuild when I have parts and manual.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
6th August 2011, 01:26 AM
OK, the forum is not accepting my images.

tbird650
6th August 2011, 10:30 AM
JSB. Thanks for the details. I'd love to see these images at some point. Perhaps they are too large? Possibly upload as attachments via "manage attachments"...there is size limitations there though. Otherwise what about Skydrive (http://explore.live.com/windows-live-skydrive) (25 GB of free online storage so it says)

Have you found that lacquer thinner and MEK are better than other solvents in cleaning substances commonly found in our fuel systems?

I wiki'd : lacquer thinner, a mixture of several solvents typically containing butyl acetate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyl_acetate) and xylene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylene) or toluene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene)

Once, way back when I was using CAV296 paper filtration, I found that the paper of the element had started to pull away from its' metal end caps. I thought maybe this was something do with thinners/solvent additives. Indeed the Tech at Ryco advised me not to use too high% of methanol as the glue wasn't resistant enough. Something to be cautious about anyway.

The black fallout in your tank could be carbon from the combustion process of the engine it came from. No doubt some of the oil was motor oil?

Re the IP's. Often they require special tooling to dismantle. Like a 3sided nut for example. :confused: There's a real good step by step with pics for the Bosch VE rotary type IP here (http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/topic17456.html) . Hopefully you can find something similar for your Stanadyne. If I get IP failure, I'll probably fit a 2nd hand one then look at repairing the original, and shelve it. There quite complicated but definitely start with a clear head!

Jeffrey S. Brooks
9th August 2011, 08:32 AM
Sorry, Tbird, that my photos are not showing up here, they are all low res 72 dpi 4x5s. I have posted these same photos on other biofuels forums and I have posted them to this forum, so I am not sure why they are not now posting here.

I generally use petrol as a solvent for most of my needs around my alternative fuels projects, because it is cheap, effective and I can just blend the waste right back into my waste oils to make fuel. However, lacquer thinner and MEK are the only solvents I have found so far that will dissolve the lacquers that come from blending vegetable oils with motor oils. I have tried xylene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylene) or toluene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene), but they will not do much for these lacquers.

Yes, I switched from cartridge filters to bag filters when I found that the seals at the ends of the cartridge filters were swelling and buckling due to the alcohol content in petrol here in the USA. The cartridge filters were failing when I was back-flushing them, not when I was filtering blends.

Yes, I believe it is reasonable to consider that the sources of the black precipitate in my fuel is coming from free carbon that is coming from WMO in my blends.

I have been looking for a clear step-by-step disassembly instructions of the standyne IP, but have only found a very complicated exploded diagram. Since I can pick used ones up at the junkyards here for $35, I will just pick up another one and keep the old ones for rebuilding when I can find a source of a seals kit and repair manual.

tillyfromparadise
4th March 2012, 07:12 PM
Hi Jeffrey,
I just found this thread. I can not imagine how I missed it.
Your problem with repeated failure of your IP is that Stanadyne pumps are unsuited to the low quality fuel you are using.

This is from my SVO guru HCII in the UK'

Stanadyne DB Radial Plunger Distributor Pump (http://www.veggiediesel.co.uk/)

This American pump is not that common in the UK, usually found only on the "Japanese Dodge" engine found in some older Renault trucks and minibuses, being made under Licence by Diesel Kiki It follows the same operating principle as the Lucas CAV
This pump can suffer the same fate as the Lucas CAV, as its construction of the distributor rotor and hydraulic head are very similar, These pumps should only be used on Vegetable oils where the pump and fuel have been heated to full normal running temperature, if no internal modifications to improve rotor lubrication have been carried out.

Hope that helps

Jeffrey S. Brooks
4th March 2012, 11:57 PM
Those who bother to read the last few posts on this thread from 8th August 2011, 03:32 PM and before will find that I had figured out that the problem with my DB2 iPs was blending WMO on top of WVO blends, which produces a dramatic precipitation event of lacquer and free carbon. So, the problems that I was having had nothing to do with blending petrol with waste oils it was finally realizing that WMO and WVO produce a dramatic precipitation event of lacquer and free carbon. Recognizing that I have used it to my advantage by blending WMO with WVO at 50%; in an external settling tank, then blending petrol at 20% with the total solution, then allowing 3 days to pass for settling, then draining the thick and/or black component off the bottom, until a translucent blend is arrived at, then filtering down to 1-micron solved the problem for my engine, which has yet to show coking problems on this translucent blend, so it is therefore most probably will work on all other diesel engines.

peter1
5th March 2012, 05:51 PM
OK, I'm confused!

First you say:


So, the problems that I was having had nothing to do with blending petrol with waste oils it was finally realizing that WMO and WVO produce a dramatic precipitation event of lacquer and free carbon.

Then you say:


Recognizing that I have used it to my advantage by blending WMO with WVO at 50% in an external settling tank, then blending petrol at 20% with the total solution,

So you are saying the problem is nothing to do with blending petrol with waste oils but then you say you are blending WMO and WVO with petrol.
I have always known WVO to mean WASTE vegetable oil and WMO as WASTE motor oil.
So it seems to me you are still blending with the exact same WASTE oils that you said in the sentence before was the cause of your problems.
It seems the only difference in what you are using is calling them by name and by an acronym.

As far as WMO and WVO blending go, I thought the problems with that was common knowledge from a long time back. If you had a decent fuel preparation system and onboard filters, i still don't see what physical mechanism would have caused the IP damage?

As a matter of interest, how many pumps have you been through in total?
Injector pumps here even used can be easily worth as much as the car many people are running veg fuels in.

Jeffrey S. Brooks
6th March 2012, 12:42 AM
OK, I'm confused! So you are saying the problem is nothing to do with blending petrol with waste oils but then you say you are blending WMO and WVO with petrol.
I have always known WVO to mean WASTE vegetable oil and WMO as WASTE motor oil.
So it seems to me you are still blending with the exact same WASTE oils that you said in the sentence before was the cause of your problems.
It seems the only difference in what you are using is calling them by name and by an acronym. Not really. What I am doing is using the incompatibility between WVO and WMO as a mechanism of differential solubility. This means I am forcing the precipitation of dissolved free carbon and lacquer out of solution with WMO by blending WVO with my WMO in a settling tank, because free-carbon and lacquer are not as soluble in WVO as they are in WMO, then I drain off the sludge, and I find no new precipitates are formed.


As far as WMO and WVO blending go, I thought the problems with that was common knowledge from a long time back. I wish it was known to me a long time ago. I have been reading on alternative diesel forums for 7 years. From what I have read on those forums using WMO as a diesel fuel is relatively new, and realizing that WMO and WVO were incompatible arrived on the sceen about a year ago, and I was one of the first to report it.


If you had a decent fuel preparation system and onboard filters, i still don't see what physical mechanism would have caused the IP damage?Actually, I have found that the precipitates formed from blending WMO with WVO can be at least 10% of the total blend. I have a 120L fuel tank, so that is 12L of sticky precipitates. My fuel filters are bigger than stock, but they can only trap about 2L of sludge.


As a matter of interest, how many pumps have you been through in total?
Injector pumps here even used can be easily worth as much as the car many people are running veg fuels in.I have replaced my IPs about 3 or 4 times, I can pull an IP from a wreck at the junkyard for $45US, which is cheap. I now have 3 on hand. However, it was really the injectors all along that failed first, and sometimes took the IP with them. I have found I can just clean my injectors and put them back on for adequate running.

tillyfromparadise
6th March 2012, 02:18 AM
%Hi Jeffrey,
Those who bother to read the last few posts on this thread from 8th August 2011, 03:32 PM and before will find that I had figured out that the problem with my DB2 iPs was blending WMO on top of WVO blends, You may not remember, but in the first post starting this thread you said "My method is blending gasoline with vegetable oil at 20% gasoline/80% Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO).
I find the STANADYNE DB2 Injection Pumps are failing after about 9 months on the above fuel blend."
You make no mention of WMO in the mix.





However, it was really the injectors all along that failed first, and sometimes took the IP with them. How does a clogged injector "take an IP with it"?

Jeffrey S. Brooks
6th March 2012, 11:53 PM
%Hi Jeffrey,You may not remember, but in the first post starting this thread you said "My method is blending gasoline with vegetable oil at 20% gasoline/80% Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO).
I find the STANADYNE DB2 Injection Pumps are failing after about 9 months on the above fuel blend."
You make no mention of WMO in the mix.


MOD EDIT: removed personal accusation


However, to answer your question, I reasoned 5 years ago that if blending petrol with WVO worked so well as diesel fuel, then the same process would work with any waste oil. It just so happened that I had access to a partial drum of WMO that was rusted out and starting to leak, where I was first working on my blending experiments, so I decided that it would be a good thing for the riparian area that I was in for me to pump out that barrel and turn what I could of it into fuel. It was only about 20L of WMO blended into about 60L of WVO, so the precipitates that formed in my fuel tank did not take my engine all right away, but by the end of the summer the engine would not longer run. So, I did not realize at the time that my engine failure was related to WMO blending.

I replaced the injector pump, and got the engine running, but the engine failed again a few months later. I sent the pump off for rebuild, but my rebuilder said he wouldn't do it if I did not send him the injectors, because he said, "What ever crap you have in the injector pump is in your injectors as well." I did not realize until a year later that the real problem was coked injectors over-stressed the injector pump, so I should have all along just replaced, or rebuilt, my injectors.

How does a clogged injector "take an IP with it"?
On my engine if I try to run it with coked injectors for too long it can damage the IP. It is most probably due to back pressure.

tillyfromparadise
7th March 2012, 12:54 AM
%Hi Jeffrey,


It is too bad that you are not a blender, because your constant nit-picking of every one of my posts just looks like a pathetic attempt to hijack the blending forum, and makes you look like a sock-puppet.In truth, on some forums I am known as Tilly instead of Tillyfromparadise. I apologise if you found that confusing. I thought most people would be able to make the connection.




However, to answer your question, I reasoned 5 years ago that if blending petrol with WVO worked so well as diesel fuel, then the same process would work with any waste oil.I have noticed that you often seem to make these assumptions based on a total lack of rational thought or scientific experimentation.




It just so happened that I had access to a partial drum of WMO that was rusted out and starting to leak, where I was first working on my blending experiments, so I decided that it would be a good thing for the riparian area that I was in for me to pump out that barrel and turn what I could of it into fuel. It was only about 20L of WMO blended into about 60L of WVO, so the precipitates that formed in my fuel tank did not take my engine all right away, but by the end of the summer the engine would not longer run. So, I did not realize at the time that my engine failure was related to WMO blending.Unbelieveable! So it was that initial 20L of WMO you put in your van all those years ago that has caused the failure of 4 or 5 IP's in the last 5 years.
That has to be the most compelling reason I have ever read to warn everyone about the dangers of using WMO as a motor fuel.
Your demonstration of how catastrophic it is to use WMO as a fuel in diesel engines is a shining example of your selfless dedication to helping the alternative diesel fuel Fraternity at any cost.
God Bless You Jeffrey S. Brooks!
Keep up the good work.



http://www.lcviews.com/thumbs-up.jpg

Jeffrey S. Brooks
7th March 2012, 03:41 AM
%Hi Jeffrey,

In truth, on some forums I am known as Tilly instead of Tillyfromparadise. I apologise if you found that confusing. I thought most people would be able to make the connection.



I have noticed that you often seem to make these assumptions based on a total lack of rational thought or scientific experimentation.



Unbelieveable! So it was that initial 20L of WMO you put in your van all those years ago that has caused the failure of 4 or 5 IP's in the last 5 years.
That has to be the most compelling reason I have ever read to warn everyone about the dangers of using WMO as a motor fuel.
Your demonstration of how catastrophic it is to use WMO as a fuel in diesel engines is a shining example of your selfless dedication to helping the alternative diesel fuel Fraternity at any cost.
God Bless You Jeffrey S. Brooks!
Keep up the good work.



http://www.lcviews.com/thumbs-up.jpg

Thank-you, Tilly, for proving that you are just a sockpuppet trying to hijack the blending forum. It is too bad that the forum mod allows you to do that, but then you are just his sockpupppet.

peter1
7th March 2012, 10:54 PM
Thank-you, Tilly, for proving that you are just a sockpuppet trying to hijack the blending forum. It is too bad that the forum mod allows you to do that, but then you are just his sockpupppet.

THIS^^^^ is exactly why you have been banned from nearly every other veg forum jeff.

It has nothing to do with hidden agendas or anything else you accuse them of, it's all to do with this very attitude that takes a downhill spiral as time goes on and results in you being kicked off the forums.