The majority of cars on the road today are gasoline engines, so why is it that the ethanol forum is so small.

Its harder I believe to make biodiesel than ethanol as more land in needed for oil crops.

Currently, there are waste foods being dump that could be fermented into ethanol, just like waste oil from fish and chip shops.

A large percentage of the population cant get waste oil to make biodiesel, so what other options are there?

Ethanol I believe is the most sustainable and also be used in a fuel cell which will increase its efficiency to 80% compared to an IC engine of 20 - 25%.

Regards,

Chris.

Because it is so easy to make, either industrially or domestically in the home garage. Most on this forum source discarded vege oil or buy at the few bio diesel outlets. It is cleaner and better for a diesel motor than dino diesel. The diesel motor was built by Rudolf Diesel and originally run on peanut oil.

Alcohol on the other hand is very dangerous to handle and produce with a low flash point and no visable flame.

Some Oil companies are now adding 5% bio diesel to meet the Ultra Low Sulphur requirements and provide lubrication for the fuel pump. Bio is better for a diesel engine than dino diesel.

I disagree with a few of these statements.

I believe its easier to esterify oil than it would to make a reflux still and distill ethanol.

True but again its easier to esterify than distil.

Says who!! Thankfully however this isn't true. There is a fish and chips shop "round the corner" from almost anywhere, where people can collect it from. There is nothing stopping from asking or collecting.

A petrol engine has a thermal efficiency of around 25%. Diesels are closer to 40% or greater efficiency (with a theoretical efficiency of up to 75%.) Source: High performance Diesel Builders Guide: Joe Pettitt 2007

With current infrastructure being so established, its going to be tough to convince the big powers to change. Better I believe to stay small and just plod along.

__________________
Joe Morgan
Brisbane Biodiesel Site Admin
http://www.brisbanebiodiesel.com

Searching tips using Google - SVO Dual tank systems
SVO, Common Rail and Direct Injection - Vehicles converted to Used Cooking Oil

The full title of the book wasnt "High performance Diesel Builders Guide and other book titles that dont make sense" was it? If you were serious I guess no mercedes engineer read the book, at least not before they made my 300D. 1-100 k/hr times you just about need the minute hand on the watch to measure.......

I think rudolf designed the engine to run on straight veggie oil, not bio, but the thinking is right.

I also think that to run a car on ethanol it may require some tweaking of the cars injection system, as it requires more ethanol to burn with the same amount of air compared to petrol. Some fuel injection systems are probably fine, perhaps others not.

Of course biodiesel plants are probably easier to keep from exploding than ethanol stills. Not saying of course it cant be done, but biodiesel (as I understand) is generally made at cooler temperatures than ethanol.

__________________
cheers
Chris.
1990 landcruiser 80, 1HD-T two tank, copper pipe HE+ 20 plate FPHE, toyota solenoids and filters. 1978 300D, elsbett one tank system. 1979 300D veg oil/ diesel blend for now.

The way the price of booze keeps going up, I can see some more uses for the ethanol stil.

I think it was an oil lobby...
Infact a lot of oil crops produce less than 1 tonne of oil per hectare...
However some crops produce a good quantity of oil as oil palm and jatropha...
It's a good partial solution...

Hi Joe,

I have a friend that makes biodiesel, seeing all the processes involved and having made ethanol myself, I wouldn’t say it’s easier. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Both have good by-products and can make jobs in rural areas. It also comes down to where we have invested interests that perhaps sway our judgment.

In my current situation my neighbours’ are large diesel users, using over 400 to 500 litres per day. In the forest industry large amounts of fuel are used to run excavators, dozers, semis and large trucks.

We have one fish and chip shop to service this area (more than sufficient for junk food in the area) but all their oil is accounted for. Thirty minutes drive to Hounville and we have about 3 fish and chip shops but once again the oil is accounted for. One of the shops makes his own biodiesel and uses all the oil just for himself. He is also the largest oil producer of all the shops.

I then have to ask myself if is viable to travel 100 km’s to the city to get waste oil. I don’t know maybe it is. Or maybe it is all ready accounted for. So should I sell my gasoline car and by a diesel? When your neighbours all change their cars to Diesel then I think it would be cheaper to buy Diesel from the petrol stations than waste oil as the bidding wars will be insane when shop owners currently disposing of a waste product realise they could be getting cash for it.

Tell me, if you couldn’t get waste oil what would you do?

Would you grow an oil crop on your farm?

As regards to engine efficiency, would you agree that if you want to liberate the true potential of a fuel the engine needs to be designed for it?

Gas conversions do not get the same fuel economy as petrol but as a gas only car they have a similar fuel efficiency. Diesel is efficient because of its high compression, Ethanol can too use high compression, but gasoline can’t.

Ethanol 100% doesn’t run as well as 80/20 (20% water). Ethanol and water run better than ethanol and petrol. Currently I have had success with 70/30 ethanol/water.

We have to both agree that biodiesel and ethanol are both better than their oil counter parts and without the toxic fumes.

My main point is that Ethanol is under valued, misunderstood and is safer than gasoline.

Perhaps we will never see the true liberation of ethanol in its own right due to consumer fear within the market.

Regards,

Chris.