Hi All,
I got some WCO from a take-away shop only a couple of sample bottles and looks like it may be no good.

The WCO appears to be shortning/animal fat and soildifes at room temperature, comes in cardboard box with red writing. Oil is changed every week according the the owner, wehn I was there the previous Friday they were changing it, and it was changed this Friday.

Made up the titration fluid 1g KOH to 1lt of demineralised water OK,
did a blank tritation like Tilly showed us at Peda's, 10ml Metho, end of a tooth pick of Tumeric and mixed, 1ml of the WCO microwave until first bubble, mixed with chopstick and dropped in the titrate solution it took
9ml. Caluclated it out Base of 7.8 (90% KOH)+ 9grams = 16.8 g seemed like a lot? Did a 1 lt test batch with 220ml methonal no good at all.

Did another tritation using Phenol Red (from pool shop) this measured at 8ml. So my thought is the oil my be no good.

Any help would be appreciated or am I doing something wrong.

Regards,
John H

Hello John,

oil sounds like its high in FFA so if your game do a 1 litre test batch, heat to 55 C and add 80ml methanol mix and then whilst stirring add 1 ml 98% sulphuric. Mix periodically over say 6 to 12 hours, then titrate the oil it should come down to well below 10 perhaps 5? or lower. 24 hours may help out too but its hard to stir when sleeping! It may be better to try 2ml acid as a start point but this will raise your endpoint titrated value (Titration done before adding base catalyst) . I use 1 ml acid and get an endpoint of 1.5 (NaOH) which is as low as it can go.

I allow for this in my base stage and use KOH ending up with approx 10 grams per litre of oil.ie. 7 start plus (1.5 times 1.4 to allow for NaOH to KOH) divided by 0.9 to allow for purity of the KOH. (Actually this is 10.11 but its close enough)

Its worth trying you may well make a fuel more than suitable for most of the year in Qld.

Matt

Hii all,
Thanks Matt
I will pick up some sulphuric tomorrow and give it a go, I will let you know how it goes.
Might be off the Internet for a while though as our computer is not booting up windows correctly, windows message said 'recovering from a major error' had to go to Norton Fix, windows had 84 errors, I will ring the man tomorrow. Once I get it going it seems OK.
Regards
John H

Evening John, funny we should be talking bio and acid base processes and at the same time computer issues.

I finally have had a gutfull of windows and this is from my new Linux workstation, wow what a treat it was to setup. Ubuntu on my AMD64, no reboots at all.

Anyway go on over to the infopop forums and do a search on the FATTA method it will give you the full process its not too hard. The only thing is the acid stage will produce water, in your case more than I get in mine as your starting titration level is far higher, so it may produce a bit of soap in the base stage be warned. The only way around this is to remove the acid/methanol/water phase and start with a new 20% dose of methanol and catalyst. Its apparently not too hard but when it all scales up its another matter to try and do it from the system when your making 100 or 1000 litres of the stuff.


Regards indeed, you're a new/acid base producer, well that all depends on how it goes.

Matt

Sorry John I just read my first reply and reailised that I did not finish the whole process for you. After the acid treatment we add the remaining 12% methanol with the required amount of catalyst as determined by a titration, called the endpoint titration after the acid stage.

Anyway try it out and let us knwo how it goes.

Regards,
Matt

Hi All,
Thanks Matt for the extra information.
Show holiday up here today, chased around but no luck finding sulphuric in this area, I will have to go further afield on my next RDO.

Just at the end of 2 weeks holidays, did a little more work on my processor but as usual it has had to take a backseat as I have been preparing the area (paving and underground pipes) for rain water tanks and pump, tanks arrive next Friday.

The computer man is not coming until next Monday and the only way I can get the computer to work is do a Norton Windows fix each time and then wait & wait until it loads up, everthing I know about computers you could write on the back of a postage stamp with a felt pen.

Regards and thanks again,

John H

Goto the Brisbane suppliers page and you will see that Industrial Cleansers at Bilsen Rd Geebung do sell it, a bit of a trip for you but at least its northside.

Matt

Hi All,
Matt
Last week I purchased some Sulphuric acid (Electro plating shop 98%). Last weekend I mixed 1Lt heated UCO, 50Ml Methonal, sturred,added 1Ml Sulphuric, sturred over the rest of the day and let sit until today, Friday.
Titrated at 1 (one), mixed methoxide 1+7.8=8.8g KOH, 200Ml Methonal, oil at 55C, perfect reaction and separation, mixed at 15 minute intervals for 1 hour.
After 2 hours I have about half Bio diesel and half glycerine. Would you think that would be about right. I will measure the amounts when I separate and before washing.

Thanks Matt
Regards John H

John, it does sound a bit odd that its approx 50/50 bio/glycerol. Your titration at 1 is also odd as the acid should give an end point titration of 1.5.

I would suggest you check the titration process in all aspects. What was the starting titration too? I can only think that this is the cause of such a disparity.

I must admit my process is now a recipe as the oil is constant and we get very good result using the same formula as you. Only difference is we use 80ml methanol per litre of oil int he acid stage, then the remaining 120ml methanol per litre of oil in the base stage. 10gm KOH per litre of oil and hey presto add heat and stir.

Might pay to try another batch?
Matt

Hi all,
Matt,
Yes I will do another batch and cross check the results but at least this time there was a reaction.
I will keep you posted.
Thanks
John H