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  • Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Hi all,

    A bout 3 or so months ago, I bought an old W123 Merc 300D from a bloke on the Ozbenz Forum. I'd wanted to get one for a while and when this one came up, I couldn't talk myself out of it. I drove down to Melbourne with Timorcoco, filled the tank with biodiesel that we brought along and drove it back to Sydney. Since then I’ve been working on it as necessary to get NSW roadworthy and it is has now been registered for a month or so. The big selling point for me was the custom T4OE turbo with 3" mandrel-bent straight through exhaust that the PO fitted, which makes an otherwise very slow vehicle able to participate in normal traffic. He had also fitted a water-methanol injection system to further increase power and keep EGT’s under control. This system did not come with the car, but, fortuitously, I had already bought one that I was planning to install on my Rodeo ute, so that sealed the deal.

    PO was kind enough to leave all the pipework and wiring from his old one in place and the new one bolted basically straight up.

    Here's a link to the one I had already purchased…fortunately when the AUD was nice and high:

    ‪http://www.coolingmist.com/pagedisplay.aspx?pid=cmstage1&feature_key=turbo_ki ts

    Here's the installation manual:

    ‪http://www.coolingmist.com/coolingmist/instructions/CMS1deluxe.pdf

    If I had my time over, I think the following kit is even better value as it is the older version and is basically the same, just old stock and with a check valve in place of the solenoid, which I haven't installed (yet) anyway.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/161709434...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    I think you would struggle to buy all of the parts for the cost of this and I am very tempted to put a second one in my Rodeo the results are so positive.

    I feel like I've got it dialed in now. The boost pressure switch comes set at 10 PSI from the factory, but is adjustable from 1 - 25 PSI. I feel 10 PSI was a bit too late for this particular turbo as the engine is already screaming by the time it makes 10. I've adjusted it down to about 4 and it makes an amazing difference to driving around town. You can really feel it kick in and the boost pressure climbs much more rapidly than without it. The result is more low-end torque and you don't have to rev it as hard to extract the power. It is effortless driving around town and actually pulls up hills, whereas without it, you can just maintain speed up hills (which I guess is an improvement over a NA 300D anyway). If I do any highway driving I think I will adjust it up to about 6 PSI as it would be on all the time at 100 km/h and I will end up draining the 5 litre tank too quickly. At 6 I think it would just come on when overtaking or on the hills.

    I opted for the smallest option of ‘up to 300 horsepower’ with the smallest nozzle. I believe the PO had one several sizes larger and had the boost switch set much higher, which would have produced a lot more power much higher up in the rev range to the point where the turbo was making up to 21 PSI from memory. In the interest of engine conservation and not going through the 50/50 mix of water/methanol too quickly, I will stick with the small nozzle for the time being. I don’t think I have hit more than 12 – 14 PSI before I chicken out and shift gear.

    Around town, I think I will get at least 100 km, maybe 150 – 200 km, to a 5L tank of ‘boost juice’ under the current settings, depending on how I drive it. I may also try just straight water when this tank runs out to see how much difference that makes.

    If I fit one of these to the Rodeo, I think it will be a (comparatively) formidable weapon.....maybe even able to keep up with some of the slower modern common-rail diesel utes?.....if the clutch holds
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016 - SOLD
    1994 Peugeot 405 SRDT 1.9L intercooled turbo diesel (Shitbox Rally car.) - B100 since August 2019 - SOLD
    @thirddegreeburns on Instagram
    @thirddegreeburns2019 on Facebook


  • #2
    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Ive always want to try one of those kit on a NA diesel, Just to see what happens.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

      Originally posted by smithw View Post
      Ive always want to try one of those kit on a NA diesel, Just to see what happens.
      I think it would probably still have positive effects, but maybe not as profound. I think all internal combustion engines would benefit from cooler intake temperatures - denser air charge = more oxygen per gulp of air. It seems like all the manufacturers of the kits have options for NA petrol vehicles.

      I don't know whether it is just limited to just the cooling effects either, or whether the methanol adds some calorific value. The PO of the car reported that higher concentrations of methanol made it go even better, so there may be something in it. Especially as the latent heat of vaporisation is higher for water (2,257 kJ/kg) than methanol (1,100 kJ/kg) - so water sucks more heat out of the system per kg than methanol when if changes from liquid to gas.

      I wonder whether the extra water vapour in the combustion gases generate more gas volume to help drive the turbo better as well.

      I had heard someone suggest that the water can be broken down in to hydrogen and oxygen in the combustion chamber too, but I think that is a myth requiring 2,000+C to break the bonds.
      3DB
      1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
      1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016 - SOLD
      1994 Peugeot 405 SRDT 1.9L intercooled turbo diesel (Shitbox Rally car.) - B100 since August 2019 - SOLD
      @thirddegreeburns on Instagram
      @thirddegreeburns2019 on Facebook

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

        And you might experience a hydrolock.
        That would be pretty exciting!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

          Originally posted by smithw View Post
          Ive always want to try one of those kit on a NA diesel, Just to see what happens.

          My first Fatmobile was a Mazda Capella 2.0L 5 speed manual station wagon..
          Good city performance but hard to overtake anything at speeds over 100K/h.
          Before I went on a holiday, I installed my own design water injection system using a windscreen washer pump and a plastic spray nozzle in the intake plenum.
          I filled the 4L reservoir with 50:50 water and Methylated Spirits.
          I connected the power to the pump via a switch I installed on the accelerator connection to the IP, so that at full throttle, it activated the pump.
          It made a significant reduction in overtaking times and allowed us to overtake road trains easily.
          I didn't take any records of the overtaking times, top speed while overtaking or even the usage of the injected solution. But, by the seat of my pants, it was definitely worth the work to put it in.

          Tony
          Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

          Current Vehicles in stable:
          '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
          '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
          '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

          Previous Vehicles:
          '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
          '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
          '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
          '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
          '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
          '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
          '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
          '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
          '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

          Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
          Adding images and/or documents to your posts

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

            Good evening guys,

            I have been thinking of adding a water injection to my 1 HZ for some time now, just out of interest, are you using tap water? Would there be any concerns about chlorine or other chemicals causing issues like build ups in the engine? or would the engine be too hot for it?
            1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)

            1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HDT conversion, 75l factory tank and a custom 170l under tray tank. (Retired with 680.000ks on the clock mostly running on BIO and on WVO)

            2006 Landcruiser Troopcarrier 1HZ with DTS Turbo Kit, 170ltr long range tank currently not converted, running on B100

            "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

              I can't see any chemicals in the water causing any issues with the engine or exhaust.
              Tony
              Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

              Current Vehicles in stable:
              '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
              '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
              '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

              Previous Vehicles:
              '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
              '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
              '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
              '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
              '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
              '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
              '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
              '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
              '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

              Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
              Adding images and/or documents to your posts

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

                Originally posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
                And you might experience a hydrolock.
                That would be pretty exciting!
                Indeed it would! I love the smell of bent con-rods in the morning!

                Seriously though, I guess it is possible if the boost controller had a fault or there was a wiring issue and the pump was actuated while the engine was off. The way the intake on this vehicle is plumbed, I think most of the water would trickle out the air filter, rather than flow into the cylinders. But I guess I will install that cut-off solenoid sooner rather than later.

                I don't think there is any risk from the low volumes of fine mist that are delivered while the engine is running, however.

                Regarding the chemicals - I am using straight tap water. Here in Sydney the water is fairly soft and low-scale. In areas with hard water there could be issues with clogging of the nozzle with scale, but the pressure is so high from the pump (150+ PSI) it probably wouldn't be an issue.
                3DB
                1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
                1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016 - SOLD
                1994 Peugeot 405 SRDT 1.9L intercooled turbo diesel (Shitbox Rally car.) - B100 since August 2019 - SOLD
                @thirddegreeburns on Instagram
                @thirddegreeburns2019 on Facebook

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

                  3DB
                  Having just installed a Snow vc-20 controlled system on my Mercedes C250TD and taking it for a 20km test run, with pump start at 4psi max 17psi, and I admit giving it the hammer at every opportunity, I used approx .75 of a litre of 70% water 30%methanol. I felt like it resulted in smoother acceleration, boost, and gear changes (auto). I have fitted the smallest delivery nozzle the kit came with. My aim is to reduce the "gumming effects" of wvo, plus yes, the idea of a few more hp sounds fun.
                  I'm also wary of the watermeth reducing cylinder lubrication, and possible rust, so will stay with the lower rate nozzle.
                  I mainly do a city commute, 15km each way, so will monitor watermeth consumption.
                  Would appreciate sharing injection start stop psi and Km per litre with you.
                  My current fuel is 70% wvo 30% biodiesel in Brisbane winter."
                  Best regards, Harvey
                  Last edited by Harvey; 31 July 2016, 09:18 PM.
                  Harvey
                  1983 BJ42 Landcruiser (sold)
                  1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz 60,000 km on wvo

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

                    Harvey,
                    I will be watching this thread with interest.
                    Some photos of your installation, wiring details and the source of your kit would also be appreciated.

                    Regards,
                    Tony
                    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                    Current Vehicles in stable:
                    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                    Previous Vehicles:
                    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                    Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

                      Harvey,

                      Your system sounds good and the proof is in the results you are experiencing, which are similar to my own. The biggest thing I noticed was how much faster the boost pressure builds once the the spray kicks in - seems like twice as fast. The difference with mine is that I don't think it stops spraying until manifold pressure drops below the set point, whereas yours cuts out at an upper limit. Also sounds like yours adjusts the flow rate proportionally to boost pressure, whereas mine is quite binary - on or off. At present it is set around 4 PSI also. I'm not exactly sure as it is a rotary dial you adjust with a small allen key. Looking at my boost gauge, I feel the power start to surge around 4 - 6 PSI.

                      I am having variable results with the quantity of 'boost juice' I'm using. I did an 80 km round-trip in heavy Sydney traffic a couple of weekends ago, with some long 80 - 90 km/h stretches, going fairly hard on the loud pedal and used probably 4 litres. But other times I've got more than 100 km out of a 5L tank. I also experimented with using 100% water and initially felt no difference in power at all. I've since gone back to a 50/50 ratio, but will definitely try pure water again.

                      The previous owner of my car was using much bigger nozzles and getting even more power, but also draining the tank very quickly. He claimed to have hit 21 PSI at full noise, burning off a Nissan Patrol with an RB30 (VL Turbo Commodore) engine in it. I'm skeptical of this last claim, but I suggest you try your bigger nozzles and see what happens. Unlike my fairly clapped out old OM617, your OM605 is less likely to put a piston through the side of the block at 6000 RPM.

                      Looking forward to hearing more and seeing pics. I will also try to post some.
                      3DB
                      1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
                      1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016 - SOLD
                      1994 Peugeot 405 SRDT 1.9L intercooled turbo diesel (Shitbox Rally car.) - B100 since August 2019 - SOLD
                      @thirddegreeburns on Instagram
                      @thirddegreeburns2019 on Facebook

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

                        Tony, 3DB, et al
                        Mercedes C250TD Water Meth Install Update:
                        3DB, I drove 30km city suburban max speed 80kmh yesterday water only. Ditto today with bigger injection nozzle. Result?? I felt the bigger nozzle improved time to get to higher boost, and around 13psi it seemed to have a short (1 second) period where acceleration kicked in intensely then went back to normal boost. I couldn't notice any spike on my boost gauge, however there 'appeared' to be this momentary short space in time when power improved exponentially. Had I been driving with a few ales under the belt I would have put it down to that, but I don't, and don't have a theory on why.
                        Tony, re install on MB C250TD haven,t posted pics before, so will try now: wish me luck

                        nope, tried 'manage attachments' after making the pics crap quality of about 35k but doesn't work. will try something else. I have one of those dropbox things but not sure how to operate. stay posted haha
                        Harvey
                        1983 BJ42 Landcruiser (sold)
                        1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz 60,000 km on wvo

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

                          https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtKedVJxBrJZhxkzLqQL1PQ5lqzM
                          https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtKedVJxBrJZhxpizs-QuxWTvMxg
                          https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtKedVJxBrJZhxvqqKzQjGFyU34v
                          https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtKedVJxBrJZhxgDAcB-lJpI3eXP
                          https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtKedVJxBrJZhxdvGg7zurLzitWQ
                          Harvey
                          1983 BJ42 Landcruiser (sold)
                          1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz 60,000 km on wvo

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

                            Harvey,
                            Where is the water injected? before or after the intercooler? I cannot see from the photos.
                            Tony
                            Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                            Current Vehicles in stable:
                            '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                            '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                            '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                            Previous Vehicles:
                            '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                            '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                            '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                            '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                            '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                            '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                            '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                            '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                            '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                            Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                            Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

                              Originally posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
                              Harvey,
                              Where is the water injected? before or after the intercooler? I cannot see from the photos.
                              Tony
                              Tony
                              Injection is after the intercooler on top off engine fed by red hose.
                              You will note also I removed the standard air filter and installed a sports style $25 from Spercheap, thereby creating space for the tank and pump.
                              Snow vc-20 controller purchased Ebay $360. Dealer was Perth based 'Warehouse Direct Performance'. Pump, tank, and bits n pieces were part of a 'Snow' brand kit I picked up from a private seller on gumtree.
                              If you want better pics let me know. I note the wiring diagram is pretty blurry also. Perhaps I need to increase the pixels/size.
                              The 'Snow' brand gear is pretty top of the market, if you google them they have some really cool high tech injection gear (& prices to match), U.S. based.

                              3DB
                              Yes the controller varies the rate of water delivery proportional to the level of boost.
                              Harvey
                              1983 BJ42 Landcruiser (sold)
                              1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz 60,000 km on wvo

                              Comment

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