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Nuddy · 28 December 2009, 11:03 AM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

Originally posted by Sandman View Post

I should point out that this engine is not a common rail diesel design, however the injectors are oil operated and each injector increases the injection pressure up to 29000psi (so I have been informed). Thereby giving it a high pressure injection simular to the common rail engine design.

The big difference is that each injector increases the injection pressure up to 29000psi whereas the common rail IP generates the high pressure which is then in the common rail and the injectors are just solenoid operated nozzles that do not change the pressure.

Moyston · 28 December 2009, 08:44 PM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

Its a good topic. And ill jeep an eye on it to help me. I recently have got a 2005 3.0lt turbo diesel patrol, and the injectors are up at 29kpsi. Reading forums about it, it suggests not to use it at all. There have been cases of water gettingin, and blowing the pump apart etc, and to fix is anything up to $6000 if not more. However, some are using the bio from stations but having a mix of it, and also adding extra fuel filters with water catchment to them as well. Im still learning on this type of engine to yet try it. but seems definately dry and let sit for a while before using and prob a mix. In regards to the troopy, that doesnt have a problem with the bio so i hear as i think its the 1hz motor? Im still learning on my engine, and when satisifed if its worth it, then ill try, so ill keep an eye on this thread, thanks

Nuddy · 29 December 2009, 12:14 AM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

Originally posted by Moyston View Post

Its a good topic. And ill jeep an eye on it to help me. I recently have got a 2005 3.0lt turbo diesel patrol, and the injectors are up at 29kpsi. Reading forums about it, it suggests not to use it at all. There have been cases of water gettingin, and blowing the pump apart etc, and to fix is anything up to $6000 if not more. However, some are using the bio from stations but having a mix of it, and also adding extra fuel filters with water catchment to them as well. Im still learning on this type of engine to yet try it. but seems definately dry and let sit for a while before using and prob a mix. In regards to the troopy, that doesnt have a problem with the bio so i hear as i think its the 1hz motor? Im still learning on my engine, and when satisifed if its worth it, then ill try, so ill keep an eye on this thread, thanks

V8 troopy is not 1Hz - it is common rail, D4D Toyota call it.
3.0lt turbo diesel patrol (ZD30) is nicknamed 'the grenade' because they give so much trouble. You will have trouble with this engine and if you use bio it will get the blame.

Moyston · 29 December 2009, 11:31 PM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

oh right, yer i wasnt sure what the engine was, but i know the 1hz motor was ok with the bio. ( being so technically minded) ...i think.

well in reagrds to mine, the grenade model was about the 2000-2003 models. I had a 2000 4.2 td and a 2002 3.o ltr, and they both never gave me an ounce of trouble. No leaks, nothing. and they went right up to 200k .
Now ive got the 2005, they changed the engines on some of the models and improved them. the 2000-3 models were made in the thousands, and you know what its like. you never hear of people saying good things about them, but the bad ones, everyone hears about them. this model, yer id agree, will have to look into yet to continue to make it for this car. But then again, i know 3 people in QLd who are using bio for 2 years and i asked them last week how it was going and no probs yet at all. anyway, didnt want to steal this thread.
I think you will be fine with the troopy to use bio, ive herd others and read others do and no probs. its the feul pump , and it doesnt have a prob with it.

Sandman · 1 April 2010, 11:24 AM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

(Bumping it up to the top !)

Any one with a common rail on B100 care to contribute to this thread ?

Cheers

Sandman

Matt · 1 April 2010, 08:31 PM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

Yes, ran it for 60K km from new before material issues gave problems, seals, injector bleed lines and sealants. Only issue will be material compatibility and if you have DPF, the extra injection can lead to engine oil dilution / polymerisation / gumming up. This latter issue is only over a long period, change the oil regularly and its not hard. No other issues.

Matt

Moyston · 3 April 2010, 10:18 AM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

Originally posted by Matt View Post

Yes, ran it for 60K km from new before material issues gave problems, seals, injector bleed lines and sealants. Only issue will be material compatibility and if you have DPF, the extra injection can lead to engine oil dilution / polymerisation / gumming up. This latter issue is only over a long period, change the oil regularly and its not hard. No other issues.

Matt

what type of car was it yr running and did u add any filters or anything diff to the car?

250downunder · 3 April 2010, 08:52 PM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

Sandman,
I too run a PowerStroke 7.3 on 100% Bio and it loves it. One of the reasons these engines run so well on Bio is due to the fact that the fuel is fed to the injectors via galleries within the head casting. The fuel is nice and hot before the pressure is intensified within the injector. I thoroughly water wash and dry, and pass my Bio through a Golden Rod "Water Block" cartridge filter before it is pumped into the vehicle. I also have fitted an extra filter/water trap on the chassis rail. And to date, after about 35,000 kms., have never drained a drop of water or glycerin from the filter. I believe my Bio to be completely free of any contaminants.
Back to common rail. I run my wife's 2.0l TDI VW Golf on 30% Bio and as soon as it is out of warranty intend to ramp it up to 100%. Frankly I don't expect any problems as these engines are sold to run on Bio in Europe.
You may like to look here for an explanation of the Navistar injection system:- PowerStroke

Sandman · 3 April 2010, 09:09 PM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

Originally posted by 250downunder View Post

Sandman,
I too run a PowerStroke 7.3 on 100% Bio and it loves it. One of the reasons these engines run so well on Bio is due to the fact that the fuel is fed to the injectors via galleries within the head casting. The fuel is nice and hot before the pressure is intensified within the injector. I thoroughly water wash and dry, and pass my Bio through a Golden Rod "Water Block" cartridge filter before it is pumped into the vehicle. I also have fitted an extra filter/water trap on the chassis rail. And to date, after about 35,000 kms., have never drained a drop of water or glycerin from the filter. I believe my Bio to be completely free of any contaminants.
Back to common rail. I run my wife's 2.0l TDI VW Golf on 30% Bio and as soon as it is out of warranty intend to ramp it up to 100%. Frankly I don't expect any problems as these engines are sold to run on Bio in Europe.
You may like to look here for an explanation of the Navistar injection system:- PowerStroke

Thanks 250downunder I found the link very intersting, I now have a better understanding of my Powerstroke. Did you know that Case corporation origionaly developed this engine for its tractors 20 years ago and have been steadly refining it since. It is a proven workhorse. They have also supported B100 being used in it, there was a press release about two years ago on their web site supporting the use of B100 in all post 1998 case tractors. (including the navstar 7.3 powerstoke)
Cheers

Sandman

hdj80 · 4 April 2010, 08:22 AM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

Having water in the bio is No reason not to use bio in a Common Rail. i.e. you cannot have water in any fuel in either system... Water will kill an injection system regardless of system, but maybe quicker in CR...

Why are you getting water in Bio in the first place??? - If you have a CR Diesel "Do not water wash, Air Wash Only" Fixed

If there is an issue with bio being thicker and that the injectors suffered in some way with the thicker fuel??? I read earlier that in a powerstroke the fuel is heated before the injectors,,, maybe that is a work around, heat your fuel???

As Matt mentioned 'Oil dilution' - that is a problem regarless of injection system and fuel used, dilution with Biodiesl is not good and these DR diesels outta the box have long oil change intervals, make those every 5000km's and all should be good, otherwise dilution could be a major problem..

I would have thought that there would be no issues with rubber etc but that maybe only some makes and models. Those Frenchies canbe a little sly so corners could have been cut....

Matt · 4 April 2010, 08:51 AM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

Its in my signature, no other measures were made, it was a stock new car, its now 6 years old and running well on somewhere between B10 and B30. As pointed out, they put in cheap components and I am as yet unwilling or unable to fix.

New model may have fixed the high pressure pump seals, otherwise factory seals each two to thtee years. I would have to replace the sealant in the fuel filter as well, but some good gasket silicone will do this.

As pointed out use air bubbling. I did have a little water once in this car it did not start, used lift pump to remove it and away it went. Water is harsh on pumps and injectors so stay away form it or be very careful (I wasn't obviously)

Originally posted by Moyston View Post

what type of car was it yr running and did u add any filters or anything diff to the car?

250downunder · 4 April 2010, 08:53 PM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

HDJ 80,
I really don't wish to start another debate regarding the virtues of water washing versus air washing, however your statements regarding Bio use in common rail engines in relation to water content is misleading - what you should advise people is that if they water wash, they should be absolutely certain that they thoroughly dry their final product.
I have used both methods, and now water wash.
I would like you to bring me a batch of air washed Bio; You will be horrified at what rubbish I can wash out of it!

Tony From West Oz · 4 April 2010, 10:03 PM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

250,
I think that Hj80's comments were in relation to water in fuel injection systems, regardless of the injection system or fuel used.

By not adding water, you don't have the problem with biodiesel, but pump diesel may still be a problem.

Regards,
Tony

250downunder · 5 April 2010, 10:16 AM

Re: Common Rail engines using b100 diesel

Originally posted by Tony From West Oz View Post

250,
I think that Hj80's comments were in relation to water in fuel injection systems, regardless of the injection system or fuel used.

By not adding water, you don't have the problem with biodiesel, but pump diesel may still be a problem.

Regards,
Tony

Thanks Tony,
I did find the first paragraph in HJ80's post confusing - and still do! However my response was to his statement "if you have a CR diesel 'do not water wash, air wash only' Fixed. This is misleading, as is the statement "by not adding water, you don't have the problem with Biodiesel". The problem is not with water washing Bio but FAILING TO REMOVE ALL OF THE WATER FROM THE BIO following water washing.
Here we go, water versus air - I'm outa here!

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