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  • 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    Hi just wondering if any one can help me out i bought a 2003 cruiser ute with a 1HZ non turbo and the motor just will not rev past 2,000rpm i have been making bio diesel for about 4 years and it ran fine in my 2.4 litre hilux and then i had a hjz75 2h diesel and it ran fine it that as well but in this one it just will not work when i drained the tank and refilled with diesel it ran fine again i have treid filters blowing the fuel line back and also had the ip checked and was informed it is ok. Does any one know what might be going on ?????

  • #2
    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

    I'm no expert but it sounds like an injector issue to me. Bio is more viscous than dino and if your injectors are worn it could make a difference. Have them serviced and/or replaced and see how you go.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

      Hi i dont know if it would be the injectors as my cruiser only has 104,000km its a HZJ79 Series 2003 and it runs fine on diesel only when i try and run it on the bio this problem happens,and yet on both of my other 4wds ran fine on bio. yet this 1HZ will run up to 2000rpm some times if i am lucky and stop there and blowing blue white smoke like a mozzie killer some times it will not even make to 2000rpm but idle is fine. is the 1HZ engine diffrent in any way to the older diesel engines besides the pollution stuff that is fitted, that could cause it not to run on Bio,

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

        Injectors for sure and possibly timing could be needing attention.

        Regards,
        Tony
        Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

        Current Vehicles in stable:
        '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
        '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
        '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

        Previous Vehicles:
        '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
        '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
        '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
        '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
        '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
        '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
        '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
        '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
        '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

        Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
        Adding images and/or documents to your posts

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

          Originally posted by gibbo135 View Post
          i drained the tank and refilled with diesel it ran fine again

          i have treid filters

          blowing the fuel line back and

          also had the ip checked and was informed it is ok.

          Did the shop that checked the IP and inform you it was okay give any opinion on the broader problem?

          If the fuel filters are the same for both fuels - ie you don't have two tanks with separate fuel supplies - and you have changed the fuel filter, then that eliminates that problem.

          I know you've blown the fuel line back, but an option to dismiss the fuel lines/or tank is to run the engine from a jerry can plumbed into the fuel filter under the bonnet. The return supply will still go back to the tank so you will use more diesel than you might think, but at least you will be able to isolate the problem. Could be that you have an air leak in the fuel lines that is sucking in air on bioD and not on Diesel and running it from a jerry can as a test will eliminate that.

          Did you know that LC's have a fine gauze filter on the pick up inside the tank. Removing the pickup and float from the tank will allow you to check it. Blowing back should have cleared it, but you never know until you visually check.

          White/Blue smoke indicates overfuelling doesn't it?? What else is there left if the IP is okay?? Must be injectors. There's also a gauze filter on the inside of the IP that veggie users find gets clogged with gunk, but biod shouldn't have that problem and when this blocks the engine just has no power, not heaps of white smoke as there is not enough fuel to run the engine, let alone burn off as white smoke.

          Tim
          Toyota Landcruiser 1988 HJ61 Manual Wagon
          12H-T turbo Direct Injection.
          Twin Tank setup runs on 100% WVO after warm up. 30 plate FPHE with 80°C output, 12mm fuel lines
          Start up and shut down electric fuel pump feeds IP direct.
          Front 4WDSytstems Lokka, Rear ARB airlokka for quick escapes up sandhills. Performance GTurbo with 600mm FMIC gives 450nm @ 1700rpm at 20psi boost.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

            Hi Tim yes the shop advised me to drain the bio and put back diesel and then see what happens as they did check the ip gauze filter and some other things aswell and informed me it was fine. If there is a air leak in the line some where should'nt it happen on diesel aswell. And with the smoke it seems as if the engine is starving for fuel. One thing i did try is i held the revs at around 1500 to 2000rpm where it breaks down and the smoke pours at the rear i started to pump the primer pump and the revs increased and the smoke cleared, But when i stopped pumping the primer pump it returned back to what it was doing.


            Wayne

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

              It does sond like its starving for fuel, bio can be a little thicker than dino diesel I think from memory that cruzers have a pre filter on the end of the fuel pick up inside the tank. I would have a close look at it and remove it. If there is no pre filter remove he elbow from the intake side of the fuel filter they often have crap in there. also filters, and air leaks, I have a toyota lucna than ran fine on diesel but gutless on bio, it was the fuel filter. I would also make sure you havent got a bad batch of bio with unreacted oil in it. it will be too thick to go through the fuel filter without heat.
              goodluck with it

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

                Gday
                Try the jerry can trick with a clear hose bypassing the primer pump and filter assembly reason being my mate had a similar problem with the primer pump blocked with a plastic shaving from the the dual tank solenoid.
                It sounds like a fuel starvation issue.
                thanks caveman
                Captain_caveman
                Senior Member
                Last edited by Captain_caveman; 15 October 2010, 09:15 PM. Reason: spelling
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

                  Here's what I think's happening:

                  For some reason your IP isn't generating enough pressure for your injectors to atomise the bio (due to the greater viscosity) - so you get a lot of big drops that don't ignite properly and produce lots of white smoke.

                  When you add pressure with the primer you create greater pressure at the injectors and therefore better atomisation and more efficient combustion.

                  Dunno why this happens - most 1HZs are able to atomise the fuel OK, but it seems that you have two choices - change your injectors or add a permanent source of higher pressure upstream - like most of us with 1HZs have done, and fit a lift pump. The bloke at vegiecars sells a good unit for about $145 last time I bought one.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

                    Hi mark do you have a picture of a lift pump so i know what to buy and where i might get one (auto shops) cause i think that is what the problem is,
                    Thanks wayne

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

                      Wayne,
                      You have been offered a number of possible causes of your fuel starvation issue.
                      You have added that using the fuel primer improves max RPM attainable, verifying the Fuel starvation diagnosis.

                      Please eliminate the inexpensive remedies before spending upwards of a hundred dollars on a fuel pump which may not resolve the issue.

                      1. Air in Fuel system - Install a clear fuel line in the return from the IP. Run the engine at 2K RPM and look for air bubbles in the clear hose. If present, verify all connections from your fuel filter to IP (your tests suggest that this is where the problem lays).

                      2. Primer pump partial blockage in connections - disconnect the primer pump and verify that there is no blockage there.

                      3. Check fuel tank pick-up screen is clean.

                      Report back to us on your findings.

                      Other Toyota Land Cruisers have been converted to using WVO without needing additional fuel pumps. Yours is a newer model, but the fuel system from the tank to IP is similar to the older ones. You are using biodiesel which should be less viscous than WVO, yet you are having fuel starvation issues. I believe that you will identify the cause of the fuel starvation by checking each of these potential causes.

                      If you want to throw money at the problem, just buy and install an electric pump and hope it fixes the problem.

                      Regards,
                      Tony
                      Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                      Current Vehicles in stable:
                      '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                      '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                      '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                      Previous Vehicles:
                      '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                      '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                      '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                      '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                      '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                      '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                      '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                      '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                      '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                      Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                      Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

                        Tony thanks for that advise as soon as i can i will try the steps you have given me and i will get back to you, should i drain the diesel out and put biodiesel back in to try these steps. or will it also work with (shop diesel) and if i find the cause then put bio back in and see if the problem is fixed,

                        Thanks again Wayne

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

                          Wayne, Here are some random ramblings of an old codger, on your problem.

                          It would appear that the problem is not as significant with the petro diesel. That said, air may still be evident in the return line if air is the issue.
                          Any partial restriction in the primer pump plumbing will not disappear when diesel is in the fuel line and the pick up will also be in the same condition as before, so these can be checked without changing fuel.

                          Have you got a vacuum / pressure gauge available?
                          If you can Tee one into the IP fuel inlet, you will see if there is a pressure issue.

                          If the fuel vacuum increase occurs when loaded, at moderate RPM, this could indicate a fuel blockage. This can cause a suspect joint to suck air into the fuel line. In the worst case situation, I would not like to see more than 5" Hg (inches of mercury) of vacuum at the IP inlet. Under normal conditions, with WVO and new fuel filters, I would expect less than 2" Hg vacuum at the IP inlet. This should be less when using biodiesel.

                          With the engine running at 2K RPM, on diesel, and with a clear return line hose, restrict the fuel hose prior to the primer pump until the engine starts to run rough (fuel starvation), then check for air in the return line. I have a fuel hose clamp pliers which I use to restrict the fuel hose, but a pair of fine nose vice grips should do fine. Just increase the jaw pressure a little at a time until the fuel restriction occurs. This will simulate a fuel restriction elsewhere and should show up any weak hoses or other components leaking air into the fuel system. Relocate the restriction to after the primer pump and at other locations to isolate the location of any air leak.

                          The idea of having a Jerry Can of biodiesel is good, but a 2 litre PET bottle may be more convenient. If you put a flex hose to the IP and a flex hose on the return to the bottle, you should be able to operate the engine at full RPM on biodiesel. This will prove the IP and injectors. Moving the fuel supply connection further towards the tank ( fuel filter out, primer in, etc) should highlight any suspect areas.

                          I will post any other Ideas as they come to mind..
                          Have fun exploring the issue, don't stress, it is just another learning experience.

                          Regards,
                          Tony
                          Tony From West Oz
                          Vice Chairperson of WARFA
                          Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 15 October 2010, 12:46 AM.
                          Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                          Current Vehicles in stable:
                          '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                          '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                          '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                          Previous Vehicles:
                          '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                          '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                          '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                          '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                          '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                          '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                          '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                          '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                          '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                          Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                          Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

                            Tony,

                            You don 't have a Toyota 1HZ so perhaps you should be a little more circumspect in telling people that do have one what they should and shouldn't do.

                            Fitting an electric lift pump is a modification that many people with these motors have made, for reasons that are nothing to do with bio. It solves a dozen problems and makes any maintenance a whole lot easier. Look on any 4WD forum.

                            Also, if it's fuel starvattion, what's the white stuff?

                            I had problems with fuel starvation with mine due to a faulty IP. Motor didn't rev properly and top speed was about 80kmh, but there was no smoke whatever.

                            But don't take my word for it - post your question at Australian 4WD Action | Forum - Index page

                            You'll find thousands of people with 1HZ motors who will provide a whole lot more expert mechanical advice than you'll find on this forum

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 1hz wont rev heaps of smoke

                              Originally posted by gibbo135 View Post
                              Hi mark do you have a picture of a lift pump so i know what to buy and where i might get one (auto shops) cause i think that is what the problem is,
                              Thanks wayne
                              Here you go:

                              Vegie Cars - VegieCars Conversion Products, WVO, SVO, UCO, Veggie Oil, Chip Oil, Biodiesel, Biofuel

                              This is a fully bio compatible pump, and unlike other options is small and quiet (Walbro make one but it's very noisy).

                              Interestingly, he quotes the price in $US as well so it should be pretty cheap now

                              Comment

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