Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

    Tilly, Thanks for the weather report That temperature is much closer to what people consider "Room Temperature"
    Will you be performing any tests on the biodiesel?
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

      Hi Tony,

      Originally posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
      Will you be performing any tests on the biodiesel?
      The only test I ever perform on ALL my biodiesel is the "bright and clear" test.
      I know my biodiesel does not pass the 3/27 test.

      Repeated testing in the past (even by me) has shown that as long as everything remains liquid, temperature is not a limiting factor in the reaction.
      In other words, if you are using a procedure that normally makes biodiesel that passes the 3/27 test at 55C, if you reduce the reaction temperature, as long as everything remains liquid, given enough mixing time or increased mixing vigor, you can still make biodiesel that passes the 3/27 test.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

        Originally posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
        Hi Mark,

        To be candid, so far your method has offered no advantage at all.
        Disadvantages of your method includes, but is not limited to, taking days to perform a batch instead of the hours in the standard procedure and using a huge amount of KOH compared to the standard procedure. Your method also does not producing high conversion biodiesel.

        Hello Tilly,

        This is is probably an impossible question to answer without testing, but do you think that if the methanol quantity were upped to say, 20%, given the huge overdose of KOH, would Dr. Mark's technique give a clear 27/3 test in a single stage?

        Best wishes

        David

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

          On reflection, that was an unfair question since the only way to know is to undertake some more testing. This I will do over the next few days.

          In order to conduct a fair test, I will use wvo from my settling tank that as not undergone any glycerine pretreatment or enhanced glycerine washing.

          David.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

            Hi DavidS-
            Welcome to the forum!
            You wouldn't happen to know Dgs and smithy would you


            In order to conduct a fair test, I will use wvo from my settling tank that as not undergone any glycerine pretreatment or enhanced glycerine washing.
            I am glad to hear you want to do a fair test and are not going to use partially reacted Oil that has already undergone a first stage reaction to test the imisidies procedure.


            Try some WVO titrating 15 KOH and see what happens
            tillyfromparadise
            Senior Member
            Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 23 October 2017, 01:01 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

              Better to try oil that titrates at 7(KOH) if you are adding 15gmsKOH/litre, then you may get somewhere!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

                Hi smithy,

                Originally posted by smithy View Post
                Better to try oil that titrates at 7(KOH) if you are adding 15gmsKOH/litre, then you may get somewhere!
                We want to know if the procedure is really "foolproof and does not require titration".

                As the formula uses about 15g KOH per litre of WVO, The quickest way to test whether there really is some magic in the bag of cement you ad to the methoxide and the procedure really is "foolproof and does not require titration" is to test it using WVO that has a titration equal to or higher than 15g KOH.

                My bet is that this procedure will not work on WVO titrating 15KOH or above

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

                  I also bet that you are correct Tilly. Even with anhydrous methoxide there is no way the reaction will get anywhere near completion with that recipe.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

                    Originally posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
                    Hi smithy,

                    We want to know if the procedure is really "foolproof and does not require titration".

                    As the formula uses about 15g KOH per litre of WVO, The quickest way to test whether there really is some magic in the bag of cement you ad to the methoxide and the procedure really is "foolproof and does not require titration" is to test it using WVO that has a titration equal to or higher than 15g KOH.

                    My bet is that this procedure will not work on WVO titrating 15KOH or above
                    How much do you want to bet?

                    If you knew any chemistry at all, you'd understand that the whole point of my method is that the vast excess of base swamps any residual FFA acidity. As you have no formal training in chemistry, I probably should not be surprised that you don't understand this. But if you want to take the bet bring along your "WVO titrating 15KOH or above" oil and I'll demonstrate it for you.

                    BTW, when are you going to remove the heating bit from the Dr Pepper method, as apparently it is unnecessary?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

                      Dr. Mark; Swamp with inorganic base? All right. What about magnesium and calcium oxide that becomes dihydroxides (bases) that form ring around the bathtub type soaps? I see the ffa's could be neutralized by these . By ring around the bath tub type soaps I mean calcium di octadecanoate or magnesium di octadecanoate types soaps. I have read these are difficult to remove from crude biodiesel.
                      WesleyB
                      Donating Member
                      Last edited by WesleyB; 28 October 2017, 12:09 PM. Reason: explained something

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

                        Hi Mark, i have (partly) used your method in that i have used CaO to dry the methoxide, then used a 2 stage method at ambient temperature. It does work. However, surely there has to be a relationship between the catalyst amount and the amount of ffa's in the oil.

                        In the example that Tilly uses the oil would titrate at 15 (KOH) and from your instructions the amount of KOH added within the dried methoxide would be 15gms/litre of oil. The neutralisation of the FFA's would liberate 15x320ppm of water (I think) = 4800ppm water (0.48%)
                        plus there would be dissolved water in the oil. This amount of water would lead to some saponification which in turn would use up more catalyst etc etc. I just can't see how 15gms KOH/litre would be able to convert any oil titrating at 15 KOH to biodiesel.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

                          You are right Smithy. What Dr. Mark's process is is adding an excess of inorganic base, Calcium oxide, magnesium oxide and other bases. The catalyst KOH in normal amounts might act to cause the dried vegetable oil to become biodiesel. But neutralising the free fatty acids is done by mostly other bases present which may be calcium (di) hydroxide and magnesium (di) hydroxide. This produces a solubility problem. The unwanted soap probably dissolves in the biodiesel very well. Getting the calcium soap and magnesium soap out is a problem. I used new corn oil in my experiments in this low temperature process, that has 0.6 titration number. A titration number of 15 would produce a lot of difficult soap problem. Oh yes the magnesium oxide and calcium oxide become magnesium (di) hydroxide and calcium (di) hydroxide when reacted with water. These are at least some of the inorganic bases that exist in this room temperature method using cement.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: My Ambient/ Room temperature Biodiesel Production

                            Originally posted by WesleyB View Post
                            Dr. Mark; Swamp with inorganic base? All right. What about magnesium and calcium oxide that becomes dihydroxides (bases) that form ring around the bathtub type soaps? I see the ffa's could be neutralized by these . By ring around the bath tub type soaps I mean calcium di octadecanoate or magnesium di octadecanoate types soaps. I have read these are difficult to remove from crude biodiesel.
                            Any calcium or magnesium salts of the fatty acids would be, as you have correctly noted, insoluble, and so they'd mostly drop out with the glycerol phase (they do have residual solubility in the organic phase). But you'd find that the concentrations would be negligible for two reasons. Firstly, the whole point of using an excess of the drying agent is to ensure that the equilibrium lies very far to the left, so mimimal amounts of Ca(OH)2 would form in the MeOH solution. But secondly, and more importantly, the vastly more caustic nature of the monovalent potassium ion over both the calcium and magnesium ions would ensure a vast abundance of the former, and negligible concentration of the divalent salts. And as we all know, potassium salts of fatty acids are liquid (that's what hand soaps are made out of). I don't have partition coefficients handy, but this would mostly partition into the glycerol phase.
                            Dr Mark
                            Senior Member
                            Last edited by Dr Mark; 13 November 2017, 10:49 AM.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X