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Glycerol composition.

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  • #31
    Re: Glycerol composition.

    Originally posted by smithw View Post
    I should of said very Hot water which is what i do.
    So my first batch of cement diesel is now drying. Heres the good the bad and the ugly. The first thing i noticed is that putting cement in the methoxide just looks wrong, once i got over that, I also notice that as I pumping the methoxide the WVO seemed to generate a lot more heat and the methanol smell stunk out my shed.The reaction too was also quicker. I would of lost about 5Liters of methoxide as the cement seems to expand making this nasty mud in the bottom of the barrel and was difficult to suck the last little bit of methoxide out.
    I got 90 liters of glycerine out down from 120L and the colour of the last 20 liters was very light.
    Ill post the results of the bio test when it drys.
    The NaOH will dissolve rapidly in water at 20°C. The water will get to over 50°C easily.
    I make soap and can testify that this reaction is quite exothermic. It does not need to be any hotter than the oil you are mixing it with.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

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    Adding images and/or documents to your posts

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    • #32
      Re: Glycerol composition.

      smithw, here is some more info for you from IMB on the infopop forum (a mate of Tillys) You would have to adjust your calalyst amount to suit your titration.

      The procedure is very straightforward. This could be done in a separate 55 gallon drum if you dont have a lid in the top of your processor.

      Step 1. Heat your oil to 60°C.

      Step 2. Mix up a solution of 3gms of NaOH/ 30ml water per litre of oil to be processed

      Step 3. Turn off your heater, pour in the NaOH/Water solution into the oil and mix vigorously for EXACTLY 10 MINUTES with a drill/paint mixer

      Step 4. Without delay, pour in glycerol (20 litres per 100 litres of oil) and mix for 20 minutes if using a pump, 5 minutes if using a drill mixer. Leave overnight to settle.

      Step 5. Drain off the glycerol, Reheat and dry for 6 hours or until the oil is below 500ppm of water. Drying is very important and the process may fail if you dont dry sufficiently.

      step 6. Titrate and process as usual.


      Im doing a 150 litre batch at the moment. My oil titrated at 15ml KOH which is similar to yours. I did the caustic stripping yesterday with 450gms of NaOH and 4.5 litres of water. I added 30 litres of glycerol.
      This morning I removed 37 litres of glycerol, reheated to 60°C and am currently drying.
      The oil now titrates at 3ml KOH so will be very easy to process.
      Lord knows why the text has ended up endways on but I'm sure you can still read it.
      smithy
      Senior Member
      Last edited by smithy; 8 December 2017, 03:37 AM. Reason: explanation of endways on text?

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      • #33
        Re: Glycerol composition.

        Hi smithw,

        Ah yes, me good mate IMB.
        We certainly had some interesting discussions on the Infopop forum.


        I strongly caution you to be very careful about doing anything IMB suggests until you do some careful testing on small test batches beforehand to see what actually happens
        tillyfromparadise
        Senior Member
        Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 8 December 2017, 05:12 AM.

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        • #34
          Re: Glycerol composition.

          Originally posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
          Hi smithw,

          Ah yes, me good mate IMB.
          We certainly had some interesting discussions on the Infopop forum.

          'interesting' is one word for them. You've done it again Tilly and got your smiths mixed up!
          smithy
          Senior Member
          Last edited by smithy; 8 December 2017, 08:27 AM. Reason: Just realised Tilly had his smiths mixed up again.

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          • #35
            Re: Glycerol composition.

            Hi smithy,

            Originally posted by smithy View Post
            You've done it again Tilly and got your smiths mixed up!
            Not at all, my warning is to smithw. He does not know who IMB is, you do.

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            • #36
              Re: Glycerol composition.

              OK Tilly, I'm with you now.

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              • #37
                Re: Glycerol composition.

                Ive just ordered Paul martins Latest book, I have the one from 2006, which has served me well, making great quality bio from crappy WVO fill of chicken fart for the last 10 years. I have heard that he has updated his formula, it will be interesting to see what has changed.
                LOL the typo makes the post better so Im leaving it in there!

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                • #38
                  Re: Glycerol composition.

                  It does read OK, Warrick. I have come across chicken fart as well!

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                  • #39
                    Re: Glycerol composition.

                    I have previously used the IMB method of caustic stripping to reduce the titration of nasty oil and it worked well. The only criticism I had of it was that glycerol is useful stuff, and can be used for prewashing oil (or enhanced-prewashing whereby some methoxide is added to the glycerol) several times. The IMB method rendered the glycerol so waterlogged that it could only be used once.


                    But it did a great job of cleaning and neutralising some really horrible oil I had.


                    David

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                    • #40
                      Re: Glycerol composition.

                      Ok heres an update on cement diesel, sorry it took so long it been crazy at work. Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2017-12-21 at 12.27.47 pm.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	32.5 KB
ID:	94664 The bio looks good, and there is minimal soaps in shakeup test.
                      Strangely the 3/27 test didn't go so well. The Methanol went murky and although there was no drop out, it didn't really clear up even after half and hour. My usual bio test (on the left of the picture) is crystal clear with no drop out.
                      I don't really know what that means but an interesting result.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Glycerol composition.

                        Hi smithw, I wonder if your cloudy methanol phase is an indication that there is some calcium soap present. Are you sure there were no fines from the dried methoxide inadvertently added to your oil. Is your finished bio clear and bright.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Glycerol composition.

                          The finished bio looks great, it is possible that some fines got into the methoxide. I suck it out of the drum with a pump and i did notice the cement was really easy to stir up from the bottom. I put a couple of elbows on the end of the pipe to minimize the amount of cement been sucked in.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Glycerol composition.

                            Originally posted by smithw View Post
                            The finished bio looks great, it is possible that some fines got into the methoxide. I suck it out of the drum with a pump and i did notice the cement was really easy to stir up from the bottom. I put a couple of elbows on the end of the pipe to minimize the amount of cement been sucked in.
                            Your bio sounds good. You do have to watch getting some unreacted CaO into the methoxide. As you say it is very easy to disturb it. Did you notice any reduction in your glycerol volume.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Glycerol composition.

                              Hi smithy,

                              Originally posted by smithy View Post
                              You do have to watch getting some unreacted CaO into the methoxide. .
                              CaO is unlikely to be a problem as the MSDS for general purpose grey cement lists Calcium Oxide content as 0- 1%
                              http://www.cementaustralia.com.au/wp...ose+Cement.pdf
                              tillyfromparadise
                              Senior Member
                              Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 22 December 2017, 12:54 PM.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Glycerol composition.

                                Our portland cement is listed at around 63% CaO.

                                http://iti.northwestern.edu/cement/m...ograph3_6.html

                                Tilly, the CaO amount is contained under the heading 'clinker' it will be similar to the 63% I posted above, otherwise any buildings made from cement with the CaO content you suggested would fall down!
                                smithy
                                Senior Member
                                Last edited by smithy; 23 December 2017, 02:02 AM.

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