Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

Hi smithy,

And probably Not! Years ago When I flew model aerobatics I used supercharged Yamada Four stroke engines. Power was in plenty using fuel with 20% nitromethane. Bonus points were awarded if the noise output was quieter than average. We would over-oil the fuel to make the engines run smoother.

Wrong again
You do not understand the difference between a 4 stroke model glow plug engine that mixes oil with the fuel to lubricate the engine and a 4 stroke automotive diesel engine which keeps the lubricating oil separate from the fuel.

Model 4 stroke engines require their lubricating oil to be mixed with the fuel to provide lubrication for the engine.
4 stroke automotive diesels do not use their fuel to lubricate the engines. 4 stroke automotive diesels have lubricating oil separate from their fuel and ideally the two never come together.
The only part of the engine the WVO you use as a fuel sees is the fueling system. The WVO burns immediately it is injected into the cylinder and plays no part in lubricating your diesel engine

PS-Quieter noise output is not the same thing as smoother running

[Alga Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Alga]

Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

And probably Not! Years ago When I flew model aerobatics I used supercharged Yamada Four stroke engines. Power was in plenty using fuel with 20% nitromethane. Bonus points were awarded if the noise output was quieter than average. We would over-oil the fuel to make the engines run smoother.

You're right Smithy, adding BD or vo increases the lubricity and makes engines run smoother. There have been many studies which support this, ultra low sulphur diesel, doesn't have the lubricity to stop wear in many parts of the fuel system and engine, rather it wears them out with the friction it creates. Rotary pumps suffer the most as the fuel lubricates the Ip, I notice the difference when running my series 80 on dino, compared to vo. Others have commented on how smooth and quiet the engine runs, when on VO/BD, compared to using dino.

There are many recommendations in Europe to buy bd blended dino for better lubricity and longer engine component life, recommended by experts. here are just a couple of scientific articles on the subject.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...76610215013879

http://jatonkam35s.com/DeuceTechnica...itive_test.pdf

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

Hi Alga,

You're right Smithy, adding BD or vo increases the lubricity and makes engines run smoother.

You are wrong when you said "ultra low sulphur diesel, doesn't have the lubricity to stop wear in many parts"
Fuel lubricity has not been a concern in Australia since 2002 (before you started using biodiesel or WVO) when they added a lubricity requirement to the Diesel Fuel standard to insure there was no lubricity problem with diesel fuel.

The biodiesel or WVO does not come into contact with any part of your engine except the fueling system.
That includes the lift pump, the Injector pump and the injectors
There are no studies I am aware of that supports the idea that the increased lubricity of biodiesel or WVO makes your engine run smoother.

Both studies you linked to is concerning adding BIODIESEL (not WVO) as a lubricant to the fuel in place of the chemicals currently being used.
Neither study you linked to claims engines run smoother because of the increased lubricity of biodiesel.

If your engine is running better on WVO it is not because of the lubricity of the WVO.

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

Additionally, this vehicle is a Common Rail Diesel which does not have an injector pump, it has a high pressure pump to provide the high pressures in the "common rail". The injectors are piezo injectors, totally different to the older (rebuildable and adjustable (using shims)) injectors.
Adding veggie oil to the fuel would not have any beneficial effect (as the fuel already has lubricity additives in it) other than a cost saving and may possibly cause issues with the seals in the high pressure pump.

[Alga Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Alga]

Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

Tony, I have a 671gm common rail, it runs much smoother and quieter in vo. Agree the fuel mostly comes into contact with the fuel system, but as on all engines, there is a certain time in the cylinders where it does add to lubricity, before combusting. It can be claimed as a placebo effect, but it is noticeable, especially when you drive long distances in big rigs, as the engines purr along, compared to dino. There is a noticeable difference when switching over between the two fuels, I put it down to the lubricity of the vo, compared to the almost non existent lubricity of dino. With the Gm, there is a distinct difference in sound and operation, which has been commented on by other large boat owners. A close Cray fisherman friend, says he always knows when I switch fuel because the engine pitch changes. As you may know, GMs tend to scream, hence the name screaming jimmies. Yet when on VO, mine hums along with a distinct drop in decibels. Have no scientific explanation for this and didn't take much notice until it was pointed out to me, you notice it more on deck than in the engine room, or wheelhouse.

It's also noticeable that very few discuss much on this forum any more, because of the deranged psychopath constantly abusing and insulting others. They add nothing to the discussion, other than abuse and more than likely, have little real hands on experience, other than on one or two car engines around the suburbs.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

Hi alga,
Again, you are making wild guesses as to why your engine APPARENTLY runs smoother when using WVO.
Making wild guesses and then stating them as fact does not help anyone.
Nobody is questioning that your car runs smoother with WVO, just not for the reason you are claiming.

SINCE 2002 DIESEL FUEL IN AUSTRALIA HAS HAD THE REQUIRED LUBRICITY. It is written into the Australian diesel fuel standard.
http://www.environment.gov.au/protec...andards/diesel.

Here is a test you can do to check whether the WVO is actually providing the substantial lubricity for your engine as you claim.
Completely drain all the oil from your engines sump and just drive around with no oil in your sump.
After a couple of weeks driving with no oil in the sump tell us how things are going.

...because of the deranged psychopath constantly abusing and insulting others.

Wasn't that the fellow who claimed that with his Optus mobile phone he "went across the Nullabor last year and came back down the centre, had good coverage most places..." even though Optus provides NO mobile coverage on the Nullabor

[Qwarla Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Qwarla]

Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

There is a very simple reason your engine sounds different on WVO. It has nothing at all to do with lubricity of the fuel.
A simple test to prove it is when running on dino fill an oil can with ATF and squirt a a few shots into the intake system.
All that will happen is the engine will produce a bit more smoke.

What you are failing to comprehend is that ino and WVO have very different burn characteristics, and that is why the engine produces a different sound.
Next time ya huddled around the camp fire get two empty tins. Fill one with dino and the other with WVO.
One at a time chuck them into the fire and notice the results. The dino will produce more flames and at a faster rate.

And it has nothing to do with lubricity.

[83Patrol Donating Member Find all posts View Profile Close 83Patrol]

Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

very different burn characteristics, and that is why the engine produces a different sound.
.

Yes, effectively the timing is altered.

I used to have a Mercedes 300D. When I bought it, it was noisy as anything. Previous owner had advanced the timing to compensate for a cylinder being down on compression, I think.

Anyway, when I reset the timing to normal, it ran much more quietly (and "seemed" smoother, most likely because of the reduced noise).

[Tony From West Oz Vice Chairperson of WARFA Find all posts View Profile Close Tony From West Oz]

Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

I can see that the engine may run quieter on veggie oil than on diesel because of the different burn characteristics of the fuels. In fact, that is the only reason that I can think of that there would be a difference. Both fuels are injected using the same IP and injectors, so the only difference is the fuel.
If you were to add some petrol ( say 10%) to the veggie oil (as an experiment) I am sure that the engine sound would change. Add a higher proportion of ULP and the engine should sound different again.
I concur that the Lubricity of the fuel should not change the sound of the engine running, especially on a Common Rail Diesel.

[tillyfromparadise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tillyfromparadise]

Re: Blending Diesel with Filtered Vegetable Oil?

Hi Alga,

Tony, I have a 671gm common rail,...

One other correction to what you posted.
The 6-71 Detroit Diesel does not use a common rail injection system, it uses unit injectors.
Unit injectors combines the injector nozzle and the injector pump in a single component.