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Problems with 1HDT on SVO

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  • #46
    Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

    As a chemist, surely you would know the attributes of ATF and how it operates in an engine. As with non synthetic 2 stroke, they have cleansing agents in them and those contribute greatly to cleaning the fuel system, especially as they are designed to clean when hot and a HE does that very well. Another trick is to get your engine to operating temp, rev it up and spray water mist into the inlet, which does a great job of steam cleaning the cylinders.

    Using SVO, is a matter of convenience and economics. Have run engines on BD and to me, it is more hassle than using VO, even though I make BD as a starter fuel. It costs me zero to use SVO, except for the start and shutdown fuel. BD costs me about 35c lt. Using VO costs me a couple of litres of start fuel even if I drive 500klms in a day, so 7oc or $3. If I was to run 500klms on BD, the cost would be much more and on dino, 5 times as much.

    Just completed a 5 driving days trip of over 4000klms in my 1hdt, the BD used cost about $1.50 starter, $6 shutdown and that's it. Using dino would have cost me about $8 startup and $18 shutdown, which is still much cheaper than running on BD.

    Work involved, with BD. heating the crap from my centrifuge then turning it into BD takes say 5hrs work to produce 100lt ready for the engine which doesn't include the centrifuge work. Plus the BD is not usable for at least a couple of weeks for settling etc.

    With VO, it takes me 20 minutes to fill the centrifuge tank and 5 minutes to clean the centrifuges and filters for 100-200lt. That's it, the next step is pump it into the vehicle or storage tank. With the 1hdt, its an automatic switch over, other engines use manual valves, because of the trouble I've had with auto switching. Changing a filter takes 1 minute and that is mostly done when fueling, only changed my inline filter on the trip at the start and when returning home and it probably didn't need changing. But at a cost of less than a dollar a filter, it's nothing and all the dirty filters are recycled after being flushed out. I use those filters on my machinery and generators, if they fail not struck on the road somewhere.

    I have no education, left school homeless at 8. But even someone like me can work out the economics and research stuff, then get a good return for the effort. May not understand the technicalities, but most certainly understand the practicalities in operation.

    Why am I laughing at you, because you seem to think because you've been overeducated into ideological technical slavery, you know it all, so always miss the simple reality of things. I prefer simple reality to the deluded delusions, the educated psychopaths are locked into.

    When flushing with ATF/2 stroke, haven't noticed much smoke at all. With 2stroke there seems more smoke but only when standing still., when moving none at all, but you can feel the engine improving.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

      So why would you get an IP rebuilt when just the shut off solenoid 'is rooted'? The diesel workshop must have seen you coming. I'd fix it myself, not hard, I've even changed one on the vehicle despite it looking like its physically impossible to do. While I'm not university educated like you Dr Mark I don't let that stop me from learning how to do things myself, like rebuilding diesel injection pumps, welding, building trailers, concreting, tiling, carpentry, plumbing, electronics, fixing al my own power tools and electrical appliances, spray painting, car and tractor restoring, etc etc, even making biodiesel which a 12 year old could do if shown how. The only time I've got someone else to do something on my vehicles in the last 30 years is when I needed the clutch changed on the Jackaroo and that was only because the gearbox is just too bloody heavy.
      You may be a great chemist but perhaps you should try learning a few new skills, if you ask nicely, people on this forum or others are only too willing to help along the way.
      Johnnojack
      4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
      Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far sigpic

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

        Originally posted by Alga View Post
        As a chemist, surely you would know the attributes of ATF and how it operates in an engine. As with non synthetic 2 stroke, they have cleansing agents in them and those contribute greatly to cleaning the fuel system, especially as they are designed to clean when hot and a HE does that very well. Another trick is to get your engine to operating temp, rev it up and spray water mist into the inlet, which does a great job of steam cleaning the cylinders.

        Using SVO, is a matter of convenience and economics. Have run engines on BD and to me, it is more hassle than using VO, even though I make BD as a starter fuel. It costs me zero to use SVO, except for the start and shutdown fuel. BD costs me about 35c lt. Using VO costs me a couple of litres of start fuel even if I drive 500klms in a day, so 7oc or $3. If I was to run 500klms on BD, the cost would be much more and on dino, 5 times as much.

        Just completed a 5 driving days trip of over 4000klms in my 1hdt, the BD used cost about $1.50 starter, $6 shutdown and that's it. Using dino would have cost me about $8 startup and $18 shutdown, which is still much cheaper than running on BD.

        Work involved, with BD. heating the crap from my centrifuge then turning it into BD takes say 5hrs work to produce 100lt ready for the engine which doesn't include the centrifuge work. Plus the BD is not usable for at least a couple of weeks for settling etc.

        With VO, it takes me 20 minutes to fill the centrifuge tank and 5 minutes to clean the centrifuges and filters for 100-200lt. That's it, the next step is pump it into the vehicle or storage tank. With the 1hdt, its an automatic switch over, other engines use manual valves, because of the trouble I've had with auto switching. Changing a filter takes 1 minute and that is mostly done when fueling, only changed my inline filter on the trip at the start and when returning home and it probably didn't need changing. But at a cost of less than a dollar a filter, it's nothing and all the dirty filters are recycled after being flushed out. I use those filters on my machinery and generators, if they fail not struck on the road somewhere.

        I have no education, left school homeless at 8. But even someone like me can work out the economics and research stuff, then get a good return for the effort. May not understand the technicalities, but most certainly understand the practicalities in operation.

        Why am I laughing at you, because you seem to think because you've been overeducated into ideological technical slavery, you know it all, so always miss the simple reality of things. I prefer simple reality to the deluded delusions, the educated psychopaths are locked into.

        When flushing with ATF/2 stroke, haven't noticed much smoke at all. With 2stroke there seems more smoke but only when standing still., when moving none at all, but you can feel the engine improving.
        No I'm afraid I haven't been able to find out much information about ATF at all - plenty of information about the additives, but nothing about the base oil. Anyhow it seems to run OK so I'll give it a go.

        I'm not sure what method you use for BD with a cost of 35c/L but my method costs about 20c/L, with no need for heaters or centrifuges or the like. I'm about to repost it after my next batch with some pics and vids

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

          Originally posted by Johnnojack View Post
          So why would you get an IP rebuilt when just the shut off solenoid 'is rooted'? The diesel workshop must have seen you coming. I'd fix it myself, not hard, I've even changed one on the vehicle despite it looking like its physically impossible to do. While I'm not university educated like you Dr Mark I don't let that stop me from learning how to do things myself, like rebuilding diesel injection pumps, welding, building trailers, concreting, tiling, carpentry, plumbing, electronics, fixing al my own power tools and electrical appliances, spray painting, car and tractor restoring, etc etc, even making biodiesel which a 12 year old could do if shown how. The only time I've got someone else to do something on my vehicles in the last 30 years is when I needed the clutch changed on the Jackaroo and that was only because the gearbox is just too bloody heavy.
          You may be a great chemist but perhaps you should try learning a few new skills, if you ask nicely, people on this forum or others are only too willing to help along the way.
          No I'm just going to get the shutoff valve fixed if that's the only problem. The guy I use has a jig that can test them. There are some things in life that I'm prepared to pay people to do, and fixing IPs is one of them

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

            Hi Mark,

            Originally posted by Mark View Post
            I'm not sure what method you use for BD with a cost of 35c/L but my method costs about 20c/L, with no need for heaters or centrifuges or the like. I'm about to repost it after my next batch with some pics and vids
            The Fuel I made this year worked out at about 15c a litre. The only thing not included in this price is the electricity required for mixing and pumping into storage.
            I do not centrifuge, or heat the oil, I do not water wash the biodiesel once it is made and I do not use a bag of cement in the production.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

              Hi Mark,

              Originally posted by Mark View Post
              No I'm afraid I haven't been able to find out much information about ATF at all - plenty of information about the additives, but nothing about the base oil.
              When I want more specific information about the contents of something, I Just have a look at the MSDS.
              For instance, Penrite MHPSemi Synthetic Multi Vehicle Auto Transmission Fluid
              https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/msds/ATF%20MHP%20(Semi%20Synthetic%20Multi%20Vehicle%20 Auto%20Transmission%20Fluid)%20Rev%207.2%201016.pd f

              The base content (Over 70%) is-"Distillates, petroleum, hydro treated, heavy paraffinic CAS# 64742-54-7"
              A quick Google of CAS# 64742-54-7 shows it to be-https://chem.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/rn/64742-54-7
              "A complex combination of hydrocarbons obtained by treating a petroleum fraction with hydrogen in the presence of a catalyst. It consists of hydrocarbons having carbon numbers predominantly in the range of C20 through C50 and produces a finished oil of at least 100 SUS at 100.degree.F (19cSt at 40.degree.C). It contains a relatively large proportion of saturated hydrocarbons."


              ANOTHER EXAMPLE- Castrol Dexron III ATF
              https://www.grovesindustrial.com/msds/ILU_TRANS.pdf

              Base oil - highly refined CAS# 64742-54-7 0- 90%
              Base oil - highly refined CAS# 64741-89-5 0-90%
              Base oil- highly refined CAS# 54741-88-4/ 64741-89-5/ 64742-46-7/64742-54-7/ 84742-56-9/ 64742-65-0 5- 10%



              Then Google the CAS # for more specific information

              If you need any further assistance just let me know
              tillyfromparadise
              Senior Member
              Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 18 August 2018, 02:56 PM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

                I thought ATF didn't burn very well, Its designed not to burn, that why I thought it would smoke. I've seen people put in a 2 stroke engine and it fouls up the plug, and you end up with an oily mess, so Ive been reluctant to try it. Im alway open to learning somthing new though.
                So is ATF use straight? and does it clean the pump and injectors or the combustion chamber?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

                  Originally posted by smithw View Post
                  I thought ATF didn't burn very well, Its designed not to burn, that why I thought it would smoke. I've seen people put in a 2 stroke engine and it fouls up the plug, and you end up with an oily mess, so Ive been reluctant to try it.
                  In a SI engine, oils will not combust properly. In a CI engine the atomised oil burns well.
                  Im alway open to learning somthing new though.
                  So is ATF use straight? and does it clean the pump and injectors or the combustion chamber?
                  Sorry, never had a big enough supply of it to test it out thoroughly.
                  As a combustible oil it will work as a diesel fuel.
                  I use water injection at full throttle to assist in keeping the prechambers and combustion chambers clean.
                  I stumbled on this after my first Fatmobile suffered a warped head due to loss of coolant. I persisted with the engine, but it was losing coolant at every run. When I took the head off, the combustion chambers either side of the leak were spotlessly clean, compared with the other 2.
                  I have used water fogging into inlet manifold (for 20 minutes or so) to assist keeping the combustion chambers cool in my Mercedes Diesel cars until I got this car. I commissioned the water injection (WI) about 2 tanks of fuel ago and I can feel the increase in power when the injection cuts in.
                  I am using a 30% ethanol in water blend in the WI system.
                  Tony From West Oz
                  Vice Chairperson of WARFA
                  Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 18 August 2018, 11:42 PM. Reason: Replied to the first statement of the quote.
                  Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

                  Current Vehicles in stable:
                  '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
                  '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
                  '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

                  Previous Vehicles:
                  '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
                  '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
                  '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
                  '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
                  '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
                  '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
                  '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
                  '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
                  '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

                  Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
                  Adding images and/or documents to your posts

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

                    One thing that is quite different between Automatic Transmission Fluid and Diesel fuel is their viscosity.

                    Diesel fuel in Australia has a viscosity of 2.0 to 4.5 cSt @ 40°C
                    Mobil Type F ATF has a viscosity of 36.0 cSt @ 40°C

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

                      Originally posted by smithw View Post
                      I thought ATF didn't burn very well, Its designed not to burn, that why I thought it would smoke. I've seen people put in a 2 stroke engine and it fouls up the plug, and you end up with an oily mess, so Ive been reluctant to try it. Im alway open to learning somthing new though.
                      So is ATF use straight? and does it clean the pump and injectors or the combustion chamber?
                      Have no idea whether it cleans the system or just the chambers, but from my perspective it makes a difference. Have tried it with and without a HE, found it seems to work better when the engine is at operating temps and the HE heats the atf/2stroke. Otherwise there seems no difference in performance. Been using 2 stroke more lately as buy it in bulk for my chainsaws and other stuff, there are two ways of doing it, I have a spare 5.5lt tank under the bonnet of the 1hdt and will use that when doing a full clean out, so the cleanser is not diluted. Or you can put some in the starter tank and it should do a bit of cleaning that way. When I first got the 1hdt, did a clean out with a mixture of atf/2 stroke and it did make a difference to performance.

                      No way would use it in a SI engine, it would most certainly clog the spark plugs. An IC engine is a compression combustion, not explosive like SI. You can run a CI engine on engine oil or most other oils, but not SI, ever.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

                        Sorry maybe I wasn't clear about ATF in a 2 stroke. I used to fix chainsaws and other small engines, sometimes the owners would mix up there 2 stroke fuel, and they had run out of 2 stroke oil, so they put ATF in instead. It doesnt burn like 2 stroke oil, it just seems to bulid up and makes a mess, thats why I thought it wouldnt burn too well in a diesel.
                        Water mixed with ethanol will also cool the incoming air, into your engine and you will get a power increase as the air is more dense, anyway there is a great website here
                        https://www.snowperformance.net/wate...esel-s/190.htm

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

                          Pardon my ignorance but what are SI and CI?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

                            SI= Spark Ignition
                            CI= Compression Ignition

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

                              The plot thickens. The cutoff solenoid has been replaced but the engine is still running on when the ignition is turned off. So it's off for a full IP rebuild. Funny thing is that I never had these problems with Toyo IPs when running B100

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Problems with 1HDT on SVO

                                Hi Mark,

                                Originally posted by Mark View Post
                                The plot thickens... Funny thing is that I never had these problems with Toyo IPs when running B100
                                Can you be more specific? Do you mean that you think it is funny that you are having this problem with your 1HDT because you never had this problem with a Toyo IP or do you mean you think it is funny that you never had this problem with the Toyo IP because you are having it with the 1HDT IP?

                                If it is any help, I have never had this problem on any diesel engine.

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