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  • 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Despite all my efforts including clear fuel lines to ensure no air and a facet fuel pump before the main fuel filter my engine wont rev over 1600 rpm.
    Compression tests were good at around 390-400 psi only 2 glowplugs were working...which I could tell in winter
    I'm going down the injector rebuild avenue first
    Does anyone know who will rebuild a 1hz injector pump to be bio friendly?
    No luck so far... they laugh at any such thoughts and have zero warranty on such
    Cheers Peter

  • #2
    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Farmerpete. I am not sure that your engine behaves the same as the 1HT engine, but if it does:
    Remove the facet pump from the fuel delivery line. It cannot pass enough fuel for that engine. It pumps a lot more fuel than the engine needs and the restriction may cause the symptoms you have.
    If you need a primer pump put it in the return line to suck the fuel thru the filter and IP. This could cause issues with the IP internal pressures though.
    If running on veggie oil increase the fuel delivery line to 1/2"ID to further minimise restriction.
    Check posts by Tim HJ61

    Hope this helps,
    Tony

    Originally posted by farmerpete View Post
    Despite all my efforts including clear fuel lines to ensure no air and a facet fuel pump before the main fuel filter my engine wont rev over 1600 rpm.
    Compression tests were good at around 390-400 psi only 2 glowplugs were working...which I could tell in winter
    I'm going down the injector rebuild avenue first
    Does anyone know who will rebuild a 1hz injector pump to be bio friendly?
    No luck so far... they laugh at any such thoughts and have zero warranty on such
    Cheers Peter
    Tony From West Oz
    Vice Chairperson of WARFA
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 17 February 2017, 05:20 PM.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
    '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
    '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
    '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

      Ive had this problem before, and put a thread on it, and how to fix it. There is a lift pump inside the IP that has vanes, which can get stuck. Have a look here. http://www.biofuelsforum.com/threads...ghlight=estima
      easiest way to tell if there is a lift pump problem is disconnect the return line, and see how much fuel comes out when running. No fuel it will be stuck vanes (providing the filters, fuel lines etc are all good)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

        Originally posted by smithw View Post
        Ive had this problem before, and put a thread on it, and how to fix it. There is a lift pump inside the IP that has vanes, which can get stuck. Have a look here. http://www.biofuelsforum.com/threads...ghlight=estima
        easiest way to tell if there is a lift pump problem is disconnect the return line, and see how much fuel comes out when running. No fuel it will be stuck vanes (providing the filters, fuel lines etc are all good)
        Smithw cheers my friend
        Tony will try that pump on the return tomorrow

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

          If you can't get enough fuel out of the pump to rev over 1600 then rebuilding the injectors will have no effect. Save that for after the pump issue is fixed. Check what I said on DBs IP thread and yes take out the facet pump.
          Johnnojack
          4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
          Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

            smithw there is virtually no fuel in return line and it seems to "fizz" out fuel for want of a better explanation
            3 months ago the motor would not rev over 1200 rpm unless I got on the primer pump and pumped it up hard while the engine was running. It would then rev to 2700 rpm- hence the facet pump
            Last week the facet pump effect stopped
            I should mention this lack of reving has been with me for 4 years I do field work only and 1800 rpm is fine.New filters and blowing back down the supply hose all the time to check for blockages
            I'll pull off the return pipe on injector pump and inspect and try the facet on the return
            This machine has 150 000 km on clock but all my work in low range would tell me it could be closer to 350 000 km
            Any ideas on a good bio friendly injector rebuilder?
            Cheers

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

              Originally posted by Johnnojack View Post
              If you can't get enough fuel out of the pump to rev over 1600 then rebuilding the injectors will have no effect. Save that for after the pump issue is fixed. Check what I said on DBs IP thread and yes take out the facet pump.
              Can you tell me who DB is?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

                Its worth the effort to flush the pump out, just remove the return line banjo as there is a small orifice that will restrict the flow. Some pumps have a mesh filter inside or under the fuel inlet and /or return banjo, that is also worth checking.
                Im not sure what is the best solvent to use, I used Metho and acetone, but petrol or methanol will probably work well also. You can see the Vane pump in the drawing Labeled 801 There is also a pressure regulator labeled 135 that is usually easily removed, which can cause problems if the o rings fail, But in your case I dont think thats the problem.
                Click image for larger version

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                smithw
                Senior Member
                Last edited by smithw; 18 February 2017, 04:39 PM.

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                • #9
                  Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

                  Originally posted by farmerpete View Post
                  Can you tell me who DB is?
                  3DB see Engine Fueling Issues thread.
                  You seem to have air getting in your IP. Reasons- restriction from Facet in line, leaking filter seals, leaking hose connections, front seal gone, primer pump diaphragm split. Does your motor stall too? Should have clean stream of fuel from return no spitting from air.
                  Johnnojack
                  4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
                  Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

                    I assume yo have replaced the fuel filters?

                    Also checked the filter screen in the IP

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

                      Farmerpete - I agree with the other comments here, for what it is worth:
                      • Rebuilding injectors is unlikely to help. If you really want to go down that route, try Reliable Diesel in Engadine NSW (ph: 02 9548 2380). He quoted for around $35/injector + nozzles to rebuild the ones in my Merc;
                      • Check that internal IP filter(s) if it has one;
                      • Get rid of the Facet pump if you can, or try a new one. That was my problem in the recent thread titled "Engine fuelling issues". After exactly 2 years of operation my Facet pump failed and wasn't allowing the IP to suck fuel through intermittently. I only ever ran my Facet when I needed to prime, but it sat idle the whole time in 'neutral' allowing the vane pump in the IP to pull fuel through normally. Whatever happened to it (haven't had a chance to pull apart yet), it was somehow blocking the supply line intermittently. I identified this by using the Facet to push solvent (acetone & brake cleaner) through the IP while the engine was off. I noticed that it worked for a while as I could see the return fluid coming out the return line. Then the the flow through the return line stopped even though the Facet pump was still running. Now that I've replaced it, I'm having no dramas. I can't 100% verify this was the problem as I did use the cleaning solvent and also added 5% unleaded petrol to my mix. One of those 3 things worked and my feeling is that it was the Facet pump.
                      • If you have no luck with a new Facet, try the solvents. Acetone was the main one I used but I would also give auto trans fluid (Dexron III or whatever is cheapest) a go. Pop the supply line in the the solvent and the return line in a clean, clear plastic PET bottle and see what comes out. I had a bit of fine sediment in the bottom of mine, but nothing major. Clean both hoses before you put them in so as not to contaminate either sample.
                      • I also recommend bypassing your sediment/water trap and fuel filter before doing this.
                      • And that leads me to the next point - if your no-return flaps in the water trap are gummed up, this could also be a problem. I removed mine, which is why I now need the Facet to prime. However, I will look into Johnnojack's vacuum prime method in the aforementioned thread as a better alternative.


                      Best of luck.
                      3DB
                      1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
                      1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016 - SOLD
                      1994 Peugeot 405 SRDT 1.9L intercooled turbo diesel (Shitbox Rally car.) - B100 since August 2019 - SOLD
                      @thirddegreeburns on Instagram
                      @thirddegreeburns2019 on Facebook

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                      • #12
                        Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

                        The facet pump is about 6 weeks old.
                        Up until some weeks ago it was making the ute almost run like her old self
                        I removed the return pipe from back of the injector pump and indeed the small gauze filter was clagged up. Cleaned out and the return line now has a clear flow of diesel in it.
                        The facet pump may well be stuffed. I'll take it off and try running without it again.
                        There are no air bubbles in the line between the facet pump to the filter to the engine BUT before the facet was installed I was always finding air between the filter and the pump.
                        I couldn't see where they were entering unless I put a GoPro camera under the hood
                        I have hooked up a new fuel hose straight from the fuel tank to the water trap fuel filter.This bypasses about 8 hose clamps and 4 or 5 sections of old fuel hose and fuel pipe.
                        Filters are new
                        Couldn't see a vane pump behind the return line outlet
                        So back out to the ute to play again
                        farmerpete
                        Junior Member
                        Last edited by farmerpete; 23 February 2017, 04:03 PM. Reason: correction

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

                          ok Picture this scene... 20 litre drum diesel on a step ladder about 1.2 metres above the injector pump ie good positive feed
                          Use toyota primary filter (without prime pump) between drum and injector pump. This filter has good free flow of fuel from positive feed source ( hand primed filter had no free flow)
                          Clear fuel lines ... no bubbles anywhere.
                          max revs 1600
                          facet pump on return line lowered rpm slightly when turned on ...better when turned off
                          clear line from injector pump to facet pump on return line
                          when facet pump running in this configuration AIR in clear return line out of injector pump
                          tightened banjo bolt on return line back of pump no change in bubbles...removed return line from injectors to banjo bolt and blocked small pipe with finger no change on bubbles ( noted no flow from injector overflow tube...injectors must be really bad )
                          All this was done at 1600 rpm
                          Noted that fuel is free flowing very slightly ( gravity ) through injector pump into return line tank with engine off
                          Noted with engine off sucking on return line from pump to mouth draws fuel and good amount of air at same time
                          Clear hose on return line is v tight clamped
                          Thoughts ??

                          3DB ...push acetone metho etc through injector pump with facet pump?
                          farmerpete
                          Junior Member
                          Last edited by farmerpete; 23 February 2017, 06:54 PM. Reason: ?

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                          • #14
                            Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

                            Originally posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
                            I assume yo have replaced the fuel filters?

                            Also checked the filter screen in the IP

                            Pete you won't see the vane pump through any inlet or outlet on the IP. Note the schematic drawing posted by Tilly is just that, schematic. The vane pump (feed pump) and the timer piston are both at 90 deg to what the drawing shows. Note the blue coloured filter label, some pumps have a filter under the shut off valve, this could be blocked. With a non turbo IP ou may be able to remove it easily, worth checking. If there is no screen filter there there could be one at the entrance to the head (cast iron lump on end) position is where the arrow opposite the blue arrow is. This is inside the pump and would require a strip down to access. If your pump makes air then it does sound like the front seal. However by putting a suction pump on the return it is an unnatural condition so seal could be OK. Have you checked the regulator valve? You do need a special tool to get it out as it has 2 flat side and 2 round sides. I have made one from 2 old 3/8 sockets. If the seals ( O rings) are gonefrom using bio you will lose pump pressure and revs/ power, exactly what is happening. Good luck you'll fix it.
                            Johnnojack
                            4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 200000km on WVO,(2020) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids FPHE, heated filter fuel line and tank pickup for thicker oil. Mk. 9 version now and no changes planned as trouble free.
                            Mercedes W201 190D 1986 model: 2 tank system, bigger fuel line from tank, no heat exchanger, electric pump for diesel 22000km so far sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

                              Originally posted by farmerpete View Post
                              ( noted no flow from injector overflow tube...injectors must be really bad )
                              All this was done at 1600 rpm

                              It looks to me that you are trying to convince yourself your injectors are stuffed.
                              Picture this-
                              IP is sending an amount of fuel to each injector. It can go two places.
                              1. Into the engine and be burnt producing power.
                              2. Out the overflow tube and return to the fuel tank.

                              Now you have no, or very little overflow and very low on power. What does this suggest to you?
                              To me it says you are not getting enough fuel delivered to your injectors.
                              If you have had the engine running as described, everything on your vehicle has been bypassed except the IP. So the problem has to be within the IP.

                              The vein pump will not be visible through the return banjo bolt hole. It's usually down the front near where the IP bolts to the engine.
                              The fact that the screen in this hole was clogged with crud must tell you something.
                              it tells me that your filter system has had a failure and let crud into your IP.
                              If you study the diagrams further back up this thread you will discover something that may help you. Marked in big blue letters.
                              On most IPs there is a sintered filter between the IP pumps body and the high pressure head. Sometimes under the fuel shut off solenoid.

                              All the fuel that gets sent to the injectors has to pass through this filter.
                              Since there is/was crud in your IP it is a fair bet this other filter copped a fair bit as well and is very restricted.

                              If I was a gambling man I'd put up $20.00 saying this is your problem.
                              Qwarla
                              Senior Member
                              Last edited by Qwarla; 23 February 2017, 08:23 PM.

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