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  • Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Hi
    I Live in Scotland on a small Island where our fuel prices have reached £1.52 a L of Diesel! Hence why i am now wanting to use WVO to Fuel my Land rover Defender 300TDI (She is a thirsty Bugger!)

    I have already set up one 45 gallon drum and have about 40gallons of 25micron filtered WVO.

    I am planning to run on a 50:50 or as close as I can. And probably end up making Bio Diesel later this year after i see how my landrover runs on the WVO.

    Here is my Plan for my set up.

    The Orange lines are pipes. and the red circles on them are Valves.

    1. I simply pour the WVO into the first tank through three filters 200Micron 50micron and 25micron.
    2. I will then let it sit for a week or so then I can pump it to the next tank through a 5Micron filter.
    3. Once in the tank i Can heat it using a heating element and a thermostat to keep it at about 100C until the water evaporates off? While this is on i can circulate the oil to help air dry it as well?
    4. Once I have done A test for water and i am happy I will pass it through a 1M inline filter while it is still warm into my holding tank

    Is there anything I can do to improve this set up?
    when I am filling the car up do you recommend i mix the Diesel with the veggy oil before i put it in the tank or can i just pour the same amount of each into the tank and let it mix itself?

    Any help would be Greatly appreciated Tom

  • #2
    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Hi Tom
    Welcome to the blending forum.
    A few ideas and observations.

    First process is to strip out the fats and solids. I use a nylon filter sock of unknown micron sorry but it holds 99.9percent of fats while letting the oil through.
    It needs 24hr or so to bleed out the liquid golden oil. The sock holds 20litres at a time and the fat residue goes firm and dry-ish.

    At this point I'd add the diesel because it will help drop the water out and make further filtering easier. I'd filter at the ambient temperature you expect to operate your vehicle in. So no added heat. Hot filtering will melt fats and because it's a blend you won't need heat. Settling time is your friend.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

      Tom,
      Welcome to the forum.

      I agree with tbird650, use the mesh filter to remove the fats and larger particles, forget about the staged filtering into the first drum - it is a waste when using a mesh filter and would only block up with fats anyway.

      Can you educate your oil supplier to keep the oil indoors after draining? That way you will not have to do much water removal. (the less water in the oil - the less water needs to come out).

      You may wish to check out our sticky on the WVO forum for vehicles running on WVO to see if your vehicle is amongst them. Check also on the Biodiesel forum for a similar sticky for vehicles using biodiesel.

      In my system, I use 5 micron bag filters and cold filter (no mesh filter in my system) the oil so that any fat remains in the filter, ensuring the oil remains liquid at that ambient temperature. I sew up old T shirt material into liner bags to fit inside the filter bag and I allow the fats to build up in the liner. This improves the filtering rating, but slows the filtering process. When it gets a bit slow, I remove the liner bag and empty it into my fat bucket for a friend to make into biodiesel. I then put the liner back into the filter bag and refill with oil to continue filtering.

      I have seen a 200L drum arranged with 5, 7" filter bags in the top to give a large filtering capacity.

      Best wishes,
      Tony
      Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

      Current Vehicles in stable:
      '06 Musso Sports 4X4 Manual Crew Cab tray back.
      '04 Rexton 4X4 Automatic SUV
      '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP) - Wife's car

      Previous Vehicles:
      '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup.
      '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
      '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Engine donor for W123 coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
      '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel
      '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
      '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
      '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab well body. [Head gasket blew!]
      '04 Rexton SUV 2.9L Turbodiesel same as Musso - Our Family car.
      '06 Musso sports Crew Cab Trayback - My hack (no air cond, no heater).

      Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
      Adding images and/or documents to your posts

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

        Right well the only reason im using 3 filters inside each other is to speed up the filtering as they don't clog up nearly as much as just using one i find!

        I Have tried but here in Scotland the rain get EVERYWHERE! so drying is a must i believe!

        Is there a flaw in my design or are you saying its just a little over the top?

        I guess what im looking for as a final product is a perfectly transparent oil no murkiness?

        Is the Murky off yellow color the FATS i am seeing?

        Tom

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

          Originally posted by TomReade View Post
          I guess what im looking for as a final product is a perfectly transparent oil no murkiness?

          Is the Murky off yellow color the FATS i am seeing?
          I'd suspect fats or water for that. Get those sorted and you're well on the way to golden transparent oil.
          Your approach depends a lot on the treatment the oil got at the source. Some oil comes sparkling while others is laden with fat, water and who knows what else.
          Blenders find that making the blend helps with water dropping out plus the fuel is thinned and subsequently filters much faster.
          Each has their own methods, developed over time. Opinions vary widely. Try some things and gradually create a sustainable method for yourself. Don't give up. It works.

          Become familiar with the hot pan test (HPT) to test oil for water content. Basically, drip oil into a very hot pan. There must be no spitting, popping etc.

          Lastly, spend some time studying the forum threads. There is a huge amount of info here. Spend say half an hour a night for the next couple of weeks. All your questions will be answered and you'll learn about ideas you'd otherwise not think of or otherwise come across.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

            Originally posted by TomReade View Post
            Hi
            I Live in Scotland on a small Island where our fuel prices have reached £1.52 a L of Diesel! Hence why i am now wanting to use WVO to Fuel my Land rover Defender 300TDI (She is a thirsty Bugger!)

            I have already set up one 45 gallon drum and have about 40gallons of 25micron filtered WVO.

            I am planning to run on a 50:50 or as close as I can. And probably end up making Bio Diesel later this year after i see how my landrover runs on the WVO.

            Here is my Plan for my set up.

            The Orange lines are pipes. and the red circles on them are Valves.

            1. I simply pour the WVO into the first tank through three filters 200Micron 50micron and 25micron.
            2. I will then let it sit for a week or so then I can pump it to the next tank through a 5Micron filter.
            3. Once in the tank i Can heat it using a heating element and a thermostat to keep it at about 100C until the water evaporates off? While this is on i can circulate the oil to help air dry it as well?
            4. Once I have done A test for water and i am happy I will pass it through a 1M inline filter while it is still warm into my holding tank
            Is there anything I can do to improve this set up?
            when I am filling the car up do you recommend i mix the Diesel with the veggy oil before i put it in the tank or can i just pour the same amount of each into the tank and let it mix itself?

            Any help would be Greatly appreciated Tom

            Put a drain at the bottom of your 600 litre storage tank and tilt it slightly towards the drain.

            Do not take oil from the very bottom for your car - move your outlet up about 4 inches.

            Regularly drain off 20 - 25 litres from the bottom and put it back through the system

            I personally am a big fan of gravity and upflow settling (but i do not live in Scotland) _ if you have space and time then setup a number of drums in series as a set of upflow settling drums - this will be the most effective way to get your oil clean

            Craig
            Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
            210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

            Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

            30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
            Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

            50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

              Right im back!
              Ive been just simply filtering down to 10 micron with a sock filter then settling and finally throwing it in a old Fryer to make sure its dry before mixing with diesel when its cold.
              So far so good no Build up or problems along the way apart from day one when the fuel filter clogged up after 3 miles!

              Im now looking into making Biodiesel.

              A friend has offered me a Ecotec 200L system it comes with 150l of methanol and all the kit + 500l of oil.
              which I might take him up on.

              Im posting as I was wondering

              What Micron should I filter down to if im making BioDiesel?

              Tom

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

                Originally posted by craigcurtin View Post

                I personally am a big fan of gravity and upflow settling (but i do not live in Scotland) _ if you have space and time then setup a number of drums in series as a set of upflow settling drums - this will be the most effective way to get your oil clean

                Craig
                I forgot to mention I have indeed made a 1 tank Upflow System but I am looking to make it into a Dual tank set up with a Filter between them.

                I have to say that it works very well I will post a wee Diagram of my set up tomorrow.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

                  No need to filter at all if you are making BIO. What i personally do (as i make BIO for startup and short trips and WVO for long trips) is drop all of my oil into plastic 44 gallon drums - on top of these i have a fine flyscreen mesh to catch any big bits. Once a drum is full i let the oil it for at least a month - i then usually take the top 1/2 of the drum for my WVO (filtering etc still needed) and the bottom 1/2 for my BIO making - all the heavy oils and fats settle to the bottom - just leave the last little bit of each drum as this will contain any free water and heavily contaminated oils/fats.

                  This has two benefits - as i am not filtering through socks etc initially my filtering process is sped up dramatically as the oil i am sending through once taken from the top of the drum is nice and thin and clear, it also means i do not have to clean out my filters as often and replace them/wash them.

                  The only thing to watch for is the gel point of your BIO as you are making it from the heavier oils etc so they gel point wiill be higher which would i imagine be a concern in winter in Scotland - you could probably get additives to help with this or just try blending the BIO with some ULP - i found this helped a lot when we went skiing last year - my BIO did not gel at all.

                  Craig
                  Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
                  210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

                  Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

                  30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
                  Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

                  50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

                    Hi Tom,
                    While I'm not a fan of using SVO, one thing I recommend you do is (and this applies to running Bio as well) is use only genuine LR fuel filters,non-genuine filters are not compatable and release plasticisers into the fuel which stick pumps and injectors,. I have proven this in a 300tdi Disco and a TD5 I"m
                    running now, we ran two TD5's on my fuel for 5 years and the one on non-genuine filters went through 3 fuel pumps (they literally stuck together and burnt out) the one with genuine LR filters,mine, still has the same pump!, cheap insurance for your engine!
                    Cheers Gregg

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

                      Hi Gregg,
                      welcome to the forum.
                      That is a new one on me. This is the first time I have heard of plasticizers being released from non-genuine fuel filters that result in the destruction of injector pumps.
                      Over the years I have used non-genuine fuel filters exclusively in all my biodiesel vehicles and have experienced no problems.

                      To be honest, I find it hard to believe this was the cause of your injector pump failures.
                      Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that the three IP failures in your car was the result of using non-genuine fuel filters that released plasticizers into the fuel system.
                      What testing was performed and how was it finally determined that this was the problem.
                      Originally posted by Threegees View Post
                      Hi Tom,
                      While I'm not a fan of using SVO, one thing I recommend you do is (and this applies to running Bio as well) is use only genuine LR fuel filters,non-genuine filters are not compatable and release plasticisers into the fuel which stick pumps and injectors,. I have proven this in a 300tdi Disco and a TD5 I"m
                      running now, we ran two TD5's on my fuel for 5 years and the one on non-genuine filters went through 3 fuel pumps (they literally stuck together and burnt out) the one with genuine LR filters,mine, still has the same pump!, cheap insurance for your engine!
                      Cheers Gregg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

                        Allright thanks for that info on the Filters! - How would I check if the filters i have just now are causing any build up?

                        oh so no need to filter my WVO for bio fuel then! that saves me a load of work time and money! haha

                        i was offerd a Ecotec 200L processor it comes with
                        150l methanol (sealed 25l drums)
                        500L WVO
                        20kg of sodium carbonate but it looks to have absorbed moisture and is hard?
                        all the titration bottles, heating pads, indicators etc
                        and books.
                        All of this for 1k do you think its worth it?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

                          Hi TomReade,
                          Originally posted by TomReade View Post
                          Allright thanks for that info on the Filters! - How would I check if the filters i have just now are causing any build up?
                          Excellent question. In the 12 years I have been making biodiesel this is the first time I have heard about non-original fuel filters releasing plasticizers into the fuel and ruining fuel pumps.
                          More information is needed at this point to find out how this problem was diagnosed. Even then I personalty would not be concerned.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

                            I do not know the specific processor you have listed - but getting 500L of decent WVO and 150L Methanol for the 1K (pounds i assume ?) sounds reasonable to me.

                            If the processor is cone bottomed and has various plumbing fittings etc then it sounds like a bargain

                            Not sure what the Sodium Carbonate is for - you want either NaOH or KOH for BIO making

                            Craig
                            Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
                            210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

                            Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

                            30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
                            Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

                            50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

                              Hi all,
                              First of all ,I forgot I was not on the Landrover forum and people may not be familiar with the TD5 fuel system...my bad!!. TD5's have no injection pump ,each pot has it's own unit injector driven off the camshaft to compress the fuel, then a electronic injector delivers the fuel, so each cylinder has it's own pump and injector, very flash for it's time and delivers great performance from a 2.5 l engine.Now, in the fuel tank is a two stage electric pump which sucks fuel from the tank and pumps fuel into the filter, then back into the high pressure side of the pump ,then up to the fuel rail, it's basically the first "common rail" 4wd engine. The plastcisiers get into the high pressure side of the pump and "glue" the impellor to the housing, we have seen this on 3 seperate occasions,all on the car with the non-genuine filter, the fuel tank also smells like a tin of oil-based paint this is a dead give away that the fuel is compromised. Now....on a older car with a mechanical pump, this is not so much a problem,BUT!!, with my previous 300 TDi it was a problem after a year or so, the goveror started to surge and made the car hard to drive smooth, had the pump pulled down , no damage but full of "glue", we thought it was glycerine and carried on!!!. It took another 3 years of trial and error and wonderfull mates who let their cars be test dummies to finally realise that the only common denominator in all the vehicles was the filters. The plasticers are so fine they cannot be filtered out, they are a liquid essentially and very clean!!,they also build up in the fuel as it returns hot from the engine, on the 3rd pump failure of my mates TD5, I sugested the only difference was the filter??, the tank was drained of the smelly fuel, filter changed to a genuine, filled with new fuel from my processor (same as allways) and new pump fitted...that was 3 years ago and it's still going strong with no smell!
                              I have other stories about other cars I supply with fuel, but I'm sick of typing now!! me tradesman...not typist!
                              Hope this helps.
                              Cheers Gregg

                              Comment

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