SVO upflow design with photos! - Page 2

Captain Echidna · #11 (**permalink**) 8th August 2008, 04:37 PM

I use about 8 green bags in an old oil heater tank cut in half (and plumbed together). Even clogged with fats the filters seem to pass a lot of oil, just slowly. I change one or 2 bags at a time, pour the cleaner oil through them, and the fats I pour into the older bags to slowly filter through.

pangit · #12 (**permalink**) 15th August 2008, 12:58 PM

I've been bored at work recently so I updated my diagram,taking into account some of the suggestions people have made and some ideas of my own:

Nuddy · #13 (**permalink**) 15th August 2008, 03:43 PM

Fantastic!
Can you qoute on building one for me?

RODEONICK · #14 (**permalink**) 16th August 2008, 12:32 AM

baffleplate should be higher up.

those drill pumps are deadset the best ever BUT only those orange ones ( all others are too slow)
I have two of them to move bio and wvo around the place.
I know oily has pumped over 3000 litres of bio with his one and its still goin strong.
They might be too quick for your needs though. (remember centrifugal pumps slow on oil BUT positive displacement types don't) Mine does over 40 litres a minute on cold WVO.
i would go for a bilge pump or the caravan type 10-17 litres/min type with a good check valve.

I also think your top vent valve is un nessary.

Goodluck sean

PS: Go see David then you will know what your new setup will look like

Cheers Nick.

Johnnojack · #15 (**permalink**) 17th August 2008, 12:47 AM

Looks good however it is missing 2 features which make my upflow system work well. 1. Cone bottom vessels with drain cocks at the bottom. (gets all the water right to the bottom and makes it a cinch to drain it out).
2. Ability to add oil very slowly by gravity, I'm talking 4hrs for 20 litres. (This means the settled oil is not stirred up as it moves through the 4 drums).

Johnnojack · #16 (**permalink**) 17th August 2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Jones

Unless You are a sheet metal fabricator, the trouble and expense of a cone bottom is overkill for an upflow tank. Most of the water will be dissolved into and will drop down with the fats. Normally there is very little free water and unless the tank is also heated, it is hard if not impractical, to get the dissolved water to settle out in the period of time this oil would have in its turnover rate.
Draining slowly from a flat bottom tank will be perfectly adequate and it is possible a layer of fat on the bottom of the tank could also assist in filtering the incoming oil. As the good oil is at the top of the tank, what is on the bottom is pretty irrelevant. A cone bottom is nice to have if you can easily do one up yourself but at the end of the day, I don't believe it makes much difference.
Gravity feed is also nice but may well be impractical. The incoming oil would have to be above the height of 2 drums which may well make it above the ceiling height of an attached garage. If the height is not a problem, then the oil has to be pumped up there.
With the height of 2 44's, the oil could be fed at a rate of 3-4L min from the side of the drum so it is not lifting the settled layer to the top of the drum, without causing too much disturbance.
Having the oil that is being fed into the settling tank at the same temp as the tank contents or lower also eliminates the possibility of the new oil rising to the top such as in a thermo siphon action.

Dave I am not a sheetmetal fabricator and made my cones with an angle grinder,tinsnips, a hammer and piece of angle iron. I welded them on the drums with a gasless mig welder.
I dont think it is overkill at all, in fact I will eventually remove the 2 flat bottom drums in the system and weld cones on them as well. The water and sludge which gathers on the bottom of a flat based drum is impossible to drain out properly and eventually requires the drum to be emptied completely and cleaned out. If not removed it eventually causes contamination of the good oil.
As for gravity feed being above the roof, Here is a link to an early picture of my system while still under construction and as you can see the height to lift in the oil is not excessive.
http://www.biofuelsforum.com/svo_use..._system-2.html

pangit · #17 (**permalink**) 18th August 2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RODEONICK

baffleplate should be higher up.

those drill pumps are deadset the best ever BUT only those orange ones ( all others are too slow)
I have two of them to move bio and wvo around the place.
I know oily has pumped over 3000 litres of bio with his one and its still goin strong.
They might be too quick for your needs though. (remember centrifugal pumps slow on oil BUT positive displacement types don't) Mine does over 40 litres a minute on cold WVO.
i would go for a bilge pump or the caravan type 10-17 litres/min type with a good check valve.

I also think your top vent valve is un nessary.

Goodluck sean

PS: Go see David then you will know what your new setup will look like

Cheers Nick.

I might ditch the baffle plate as I'm not sure it's necessary and it may block up or something. Once I've welded the 2 barrels together there won't be a way to remove it.

As for the drill pump, won't it work with a battery drill on slow? Since it's a displacement pump shouldn't it work at any speed? And when you say the orange ones I'm assuming you mean like this one?

I've seen David's setup, but unfortunately I don't have space for 2 x 1000L IBCs! It was actually him that suggested using 2 drums welded together.

pangit · #18 (**permalink**) 18th August 2008, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Jones

Holding tank is unnecessary. Oil will be clean and fat free from upflow output and given sufficient time and holding tank should be the filtering tank. In the unlikely event bag filtering ever becomes unnecessary, do it separately rather than corrupt the design of the settling system.

That's what I'm hoping. That's the whole point of using the upflow system - to reduce the amount of filtering necessary. So I may not use it, but I can put a small container in there with or without a filter if necessary, without affecting the design.

Quote:

In diagram shown, dirt and bugs could (Would) be introduced to the oil AFTER the filtering stage which would contaminate it again. This is counter productive and why the filtering and drying should be in the one tank or at very least the filtering be done last.

I need the drying tank to be open while drying to aid evaporation, but if I have a lid that should protect the oil after drying is complete. Also the 1u cartridge filter will be filtering continuously while drying and when pumping out to the car.

I'll have a look at the configuration based on what you said, but I want to avoid too many stages due to space constraints. Maybe I can consolidate filtering/drying into 1 tank and use the last tank just for storage. Thanks for the help.

pangit · #19 (**permalink**) 18th August 2008, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnojack

Looks good however it is missing 2 features which make my upflow system work well. 1. Cone bottom vessels with drain cocks at the bottom. (gets all the water right to the bottom and makes it a cinch to drain it out).
2. Ability to add oil very slowly by gravity, I'm talking 4hrs for 20 litres. (This means the settled oil is not stirred up as it moves through the 4 drums).

Cone bottom tanks would be nice, but I can't do the fabrication myself and don't think they are really necessary. What I've done before is push out the bottom of the drum slightly at the 3/4" fitting, which makes it the lowest point.

I would have liked to gravity feed the upflow tank, and I saw your design Johnnojack but decided to go with 2 welded drums to save space.

froggo · #20 (**permalink**) 18th August 2008, 08:50 PM

Hi pangit,

when I set up my system I did not want to use any electricity if I could avoid it.

The gravity feed works well. The flow is slow and does not stir up the settled gunk in the bottom of the three upflow drums.

The filter is in the last barrel/drum which takes quite some time to fill up with gunk even in winter.

This is about the third setup that I've tried and thus far seems to work well in a small space. http://www.biofuelsforum.com/svo_use...er_system.html,

God bless froggo.

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