Combined fuel heater/filter and engine oil filter

Tony From West Oz · #1 (**permalink**) 4th January 2009, 11:57 PM

I was contacted by email advising of this product.
I have no interest in this product or the company offering it.

Quote:

Dear Mr.Clark,

It was with great interest I read about your conversion of the Mazda. Our
company called Green Bull Motors located at the German Border in Austria,
develops and manufactures easy to install conversion kits to spread the use
of vegetable oils in Diesel engines. Actually it is our mission to reduce
CO2 - one of the approaches is to substiute diesel by plant oils.

We have developed the so called KYOTO Filter, a simple device that allows a
quick conversion and easy operation of diesel vehicles running on plant
oils. Please find the information attached.

With best regards
Hans Pirker

Green Bull Motors GmbH
Kohlplatz 7
A-6600 Pflach-Austria

Sunshine Fuels · #2 (**permalink**) 5th January 2009, 09:59 AM

Tony, I guess you mean that you have no commercial interest. Seems like a good idea using the engine oil to heat the fuel. Maybe could help with some of the winter gelling problems with BD as well. But what about when engine is cold? Do you need a "start up heater" or something?

bruceT · #3 (**permalink**) 5th January 2009, 12:35 PM

I support Tony for putting this product up for discussion. My only reservations are that there are no specs for the engine oil filter. Oil filters are specialised items on diesel engines and you would not want to mess with the flow rates and filtering ability. Does it even have a bypass valve? This oil filter looks quite small to me.

Tony, any chance of them sending you a cutaway model for you to look at and post some pics?

Johnnojack · #4 (**permalink**) 5th January 2009, 09:15 PM

It may seem like a good idea, but each time you change the engine oil and each time you change the fuel filter because it blocks up you throw the entire product away. Seems kinda expensive and wasteful. You would need to carry a spare too. Imagine getting a blocked fuel filter on the way to the theatre and in fixing it getting hot sooty black sump oil up to your arm pit.

Tony From West Oz · #5 (**permalink**) 5th January 2009, 10:10 PM

Joe,
I apologise, I did not word the post clearly.
I do not have any FINANCIAL interest in this device , I am interested in whether members believe that this will be a useful device for people using vegetable oil, in one or 2 tank configurations.

I neither support or reject this device. I am interested in expanding the options for people who wish to do a conversion.

Bruce,
Thank you for your interest and support.
The best way to find out if this has any value is to discuss it rationally. A greater pool of information will assist this process. I will seek the information you have suggested.

I welcome rational debate on this item, regardless whether they wish to purge or not, or whether they want to use it with blended (vegetable oil) fuels.

I will endeavour to find out more on these devices and post here.

Regards,
Tony

Tim-HJ61 · #6 (**permalink**) 6th January 2009, 12:32 AM

This product seems different enough to justify Tony posting it for everyones interest and to contribute to the discussion of ideas.

I note they sell a Facet EFP-3 pump with all their kits, which is interesting as we seem to have had problems with Facet pumps - maybe it's just the older metal ones. However there's other threads on pumps, I shouldn't have brought it up!

I'm with the other comments on the potential problems of needing to change and oil/vege filter if the vege side blocks up.

Tim

hobie1kanobie · #7 (**permalink**) 6th January 2009, 09:21 AM

hi all.

it seems a bit to fiddly for my likings. i think i will stick with what i have. i would hate to have to change a filter on the side of the road and have the minister for finances get more ammo on how crazy i am

.
i already have enuogh greif with veg oil stains, imagine deso oil stains aswell

..

my 2 cents

H1K

Tony From West Oz · #8 (**permalink**) 11th January 2009, 11:33 PM

I have received the following reply to my enquiry for more detail.

Quote:

Dear Tony,

First of all many thanks for your detailed interest in our products, as this
concept is still recent there are inevitably technical issues that need to
be elaborated.

Before going into more in detail below, please rest assured we would not
process any order without checking the compatibility by the vehicle's
details and in case of doubt - even ask for a picture of the present spin on
oil filter mounted on the engine block.

Filter Rating:

The filter rating for the engine oil is important:
1.We do not run any experiment and use German OEM quality filters from
Mann, Mahle or Hengst as a basic component.
2.Filter Selection per vehicle:
MANN+HUMMEL Group Online Catalogue is the website we work with on a daily basis to double check ratings and specs. We use this site as a working tool, the company has been in the oil filter business for the last 30 years, their web site is very organized and we have managed to find all the suitable oil filter cross references so far.

You will also find on our Website
Greenbull a vehicle listing, this is
not complete however as more and more vehicles switch to the KYOTO filter
and we cannot catch up.

Our KYOTO filters are equipped with the identical functions and safety
features of the regular OEM motor oil filters:
-By pass valve: this is important in case an engine oil filter clogs up and
would stop the flow of oil back to the engine.

-Retain Valve: makes the filter retain a certain amount of oil when the
engine stops, this ascertains immediate flow of oil upon restarting the
engine.

-Fit to the oil filter seat - sealings: most of our on stock filters use
gaskets that have ID 62 OD 72 mm so do appr. 90% in the market. We can of course also use other seats threading types in case needed, please see a sample of a Mazda below.

-Threadings: As you can see in our brochure we provide the most common
threadings i.e.3/4" 16 UNF, M20 x 1.5, 1" 12 UNF ex stock in three
capacities ex stock, others we can make upon request.
So we can cover the majority of French(mostly M20x 1.5), German (mostly 3/4" 16 UNF), Japanese and Italian (M20 x 1.5 again) small to mid size Diesel engines as well as tractors.

-Overall Filter capacity for the engine oil: we recommend for oversize or
same size- never less capacity.

-Practical example for say your Mazda 626
(I hope I took the right year)
please see this site
MANN-FILTER Catalogue Europe (Online) ) we can take exactly this filter and make a KYOTO Filter out of it. Size medium for the KYOTO filter.
Overall sizing will therefore depend on the engine oil filters used
presently and on the fuel consumption for the fuel filter part.

We offer
SMALL up to appr. 10 ltr-100km
MEDIUM up to appr. 15 ltr
TRACTOR up to appr. 10 ltr
TRUCK up to appr 30 ltr

-OD Most filter ratings in the engine compartment go from 76 mm to 93 mm.
We opted for the OD of 93mm(94mm for the KYOTO filter OD) this is how we can cover appr. 95% of the market.

Fuel Filter considerations:

I have perhaps not sent to you the latest version of our leaflet, for which
I apologize. Please find attached the brochure.
We have changed the fuel filter spec from 5 micron to 20 micron, so they can also be used for recycled vegetable oil applications.

Normally in a setup for Diesel we talk about 2 inline filters, one with
appr. 40-100 microns right after the tank - or in the tank - to take out
the deposits or small flakes that can get dissolved from different fuels,
(especially the advent of biodiesels has caused some problems as it is a
solvent).
This first filter or primary filter should be used before the Fuel Pump or
as we suggest by using the Facet Gold Flow as a fuel pump with a prefilter
integrated that can be washed. The Secondary filter before the injection
pump normally goes from 5 to 1 micron(Common Rail).

See attached a diagram that in principle I am sure you are already familiar
with.
The KYOTO filter actually filters up to 20 micron thereby not allowing
course residues to go into the secondary filter. Fine particles pass the
KYOTO filter and will be picked up by the secondary filter.

The big adavantage perhaps not so important for Australia is the avoidance
of cold plugging, when in Winter conditions the filters plug up from parafin
deposits.

So far we have not experienced a premature plugging of the KYOTO filter
before the normal change of the engine oil filter.
The forced change of the 2 filters simultaneously actually adds up to more
safety. Normally SVO or recycled cooking oil is filtered down to appr. 5
microns or finer before being poured into the tank.

If however, badly filtered fuel is used the KYOTO filter will plug up, and
if I may add it should do so instead of letting particles go into the
injection system.

We can, by reversing the flow of the fuel take out the deposits from the
fuel filter section- should nevertheless the fuel filter clog up. This is
achieved by opening the 2 fuel hoses at the connections before the secondary
filter or in the case of the 2 Tank system before the fuel selector/magnetic
valves.

Drawbacks and Limitations of this Filter Concept:

So far for Spin on Filters only
When changing the KYOTO Filter loss of appr. 0.25 ltr of fuel.
Higher Filter cost than a Motor Oil Spin On Filter
On some smaller cars tight space for installations

Details on the heat exchange:

In prinicple the KYOTO filter delivers heated plant oil reliable for a
smooth functioning, normally the fuel with a warmed up engine leaves at a
temperature range of 60-70 degrees.
The limitations as to injection systems - 1 Tank and 2 Tank systems apply as well.
The final details how we manage the heat exchange are proprietary know how from a German Technical University and cannot be disclosed.

Advantages are numerous and listed in the brochure, perhaps with the
exception of one overlooked detail-air cooled Diesel engines(Deutz for
example), in this case I am sure you agree with me it is very difficult to
install a heat exchanger with a coolant!

Mercedes Filters bolted to the engine block:
We are in the last stages of developing a so called version TOP for these
type of filters as they become very popular amongst the latest Common Rail
models. However I am afraid for the old Mercedes we are not going to develop
the kit as there are only a few left.

With best regards from a cold wintery Austria

Hans Pirker

Tony From West Oz · #9 (**permalink**) 11th January 2009, 11:41 PM

From the 2 JPG images I interpret that this unit is basically an outer container into which a simple fuel preflter has been added. The fuel surrounds the oil filter canister and passes thru the fuel filter on way to the main Fuel filter, which in the attached file is used for both fuels. It also shows the vegetable oil having a looped return. (to maximise heat gain?)

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