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Thread: First batch question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    313

    First batch question

    Alright I have done my first 20l test batch today,

    the titration was 6g/l NaOH = 120g and I used 4.4l of methanol,
    had the mixer running for about 45 minutes, stopped it, let the mix settle, drained the glycerin and did a 3/27 on it.
    It failed so I mixed another litre of methanol with about 65 g of NaOH,
    The mix passed the second time although a bit cloudy.
    I drained more glycerin after that

    Happy with my result I went into town to get an air stone and some other bits and pieces to make life a bit easier.

    When I got back the mix had turned muddy and wasn't clear anymore, fun enough the stuff in the test bottle had settled nicely and was clear with the settlement on the bottom.

    And now the big question, what happened its stored right next to the test bottle (might have a slight different in height) and has turned murky.

    Any ideas???

    Thanks a lot
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HZ engine both 75l factory tanks and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    200.000km 80% on bio 10% on WVO 10% on dino,

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
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    1,919

    Re: First batch question

    Quote Originally Posted by Bueff View Post
    Alright I have done my first 20l test batch today,
    the titration was 6g/l NaOH = 120g
    If the titration was 6g/l NaOH you need to add the base amount of 5 to that for a total of 220g NaOH


    and I used 4.4l of methanol,
    That is 220ml methanol per litre WVO which is fine



    had the mixer running for about 45 minutes, stopped it, let the mix settle,
    Depending on the temperature and other things this might not be enough mixing time. An hour or more is what I use.



    drained the glycerin and did a 3/27 on it.
    It failed so I mixed another litre of methanol with about 65 g of NaOH,
    The mix passed the second time although a bit cloudy.
    Ok, more methanol and more NaOH gave you a just pass on the 3/27



    I drained more glycerin after that
    A sure idication that your first stage was not complete.




    When I got back the mix had turned muddy and wasn't clear anymore,
    This is normal. As the biodiesel cools the "crap" that is being held in solution in the biodiesel drops out into suspension and turns the biodiesel cloudy.



    fun enough the stuff in the test bottle had settled nicely and was clear with the settlement on the bottom.
    This is also normal with the 3/27 test when you just scrape in to a pass.



    And now the big question, what happened its stored right next to the test bottle (might have a slight different in height) and has turned murky.

    Any ideas???
    See above
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 28th June 2012 at 07:26 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Brisbane SEQ
    Posts
    703

    Re: First batch question

    Great work. I'd say what Tilly said.

    Make sure that the air stone isn't biodegradable ... Is it plastic or wood ?
    I'm getting some wooden air stones from Utah bio and some stickers , decals etc.

    Let the batch settle over a week and see what happens. If the 3/27 passes then it should settle out ok.

    Don't water wash this batch , just leave it to settle so you know where you are starting from.
    Michael
    97 Jeep XJ Cherokee on B100. 0 km's on B100 and counting !!!! (Sold)
    2002 Merc ML270 now on B100. (Sold)
    2006 Ssangyong Musso 2.9 t idi (Sold)
    2015 NP300 Navara

    Stainless processor with blue water pump.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
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    Re: First batch question

    Thanks guys, just wanted to make it a bit clearer, the test bottle I was talking about has about 200ml of the brew in it. I taped that of the processor to do the 3/27. And the liquid in the bottle has 2 beautiful separate layers and the stuff in the processor went milky, muddy looking and it almost got a bit thicker too. Shame the photo thingie doesn't work. Anyway I'll leave it at that, got the centrifuge running so there will be nice clean WVO in the morning, at least thats as it shut be........ for now anyway

    Thanks again and I'll keep you posted
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HZ engine both 75l factory tanks and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    200.000km 80% on bio 10% on WVO 10% on dino,

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Brisbane SEQ
    Posts
    703

    Re: First batch question

    Jens

    I forgot about the centrifuge.
    How much can you put through it to test the Bio in it ?

    Michael
    97 Jeep XJ Cherokee on B100. 0 km's on B100 and counting !!!! (Sold)
    2002 Merc ML270 now on B100. (Sold)
    2006 Ssangyong Musso 2.9 t idi (Sold)
    2015 NP300 Navara

    Stainless processor with blue water pump.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    313

    Re: First batch question

    Michael,

    any amount, with the setup I have at the moment up to 400l (2x44gal drums). Would that maybe clean up the fuel?

    I have another look at it today and keep you posted

    cheers

    Jens
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HZ engine both 75l factory tanks and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    200.000km 80% on bio 10% on WVO 10% on dino,

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Brisbane SEQ
    Posts
    703

    Re: First batch question

    Jens
    not sure of the problems with the batch but I believe you can use the centrifuge to polish the fuel after the batch has settled for a little while. I'm not sure if the Methanol has to be bubbled out though.
    Have a look for Biodiesel polishing with centrifuge.

    Good luck.
    Michael
    97 Jeep XJ Cherokee on B100. 0 km's on B100 and counting !!!! (Sold)
    2002 Merc ML270 now on B100. (Sold)
    2006 Ssangyong Musso 2.9 t idi (Sold)
    2015 NP300 Navara

    Stainless processor with blue water pump.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    313

    Re: First batch question

    Hi guys, just to give you a update on my batch,

    as work has been super busy, the batch had plenty of time to settle, it came clear again, so I bubbled it for 2 days to get the methanol out. After that I added 3 litres of water with a watering can (there are only about 15l of bio left) and had it settling through. Drained the water which was kind of milky, did the same again, and after the 3rd time the water came out clear. When I look into my little vessel I can see the bottom very clear, the bio looks like apple juice. On Sunday I did the shake up test, added a bit of bio to some water in a plastic bottle, shook it until it was milky and after about 30 min in the sun, I had two nice layers of clear water and yellow bio.
    As far as I know I just have to dry t now and that is it?

    Thanks again for all you tips, have a great day

    Jens
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HZ engine both 75l factory tanks and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    200.000km 80% on bio 10% on WVO 10% on dino,

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    313

    Re: First batch question

    one more question

    how and why does bubble drying actually work?

    thanks
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HZ engine both 75l factory tanks and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    200.000km 80% on bio 10% on WVO 10% on dino,

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    331

    Re: First batch question

    It continually circulates and lifts water particles to the surface where they can evaporate off. Having a fan blowing over the surface will aid the process. The lower the humidity the better the effect.

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