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Thread: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

  1. #11
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    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Hi Gregg,
    welcome to the forum.
    That is a new one on me. This is the first time I have heard of plasticizers being released from non-genuine fuel filters that result in the destruction of injector pumps.
    Over the years I have used non-genuine fuel filters exclusively in all my biodiesel vehicles and have experienced no problems.

    To be honest, I find it hard to believe this was the cause of your injector pump failures.
    Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that the three IP failures in your car was the result of using non-genuine fuel filters that released plasticizers into the fuel system.
    What testing was performed and how was it finally determined that this was the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Threegees View Post
    Hi Tom,
    While I'm not a fan of using SVO, one thing I recommend you do is (and this applies to running Bio as well) is use only genuine LR fuel filters,non-genuine filters are not compatable and release plasticisers into the fuel which stick pumps and injectors,. I have proven this in a 300tdi Disco and a TD5 I"m
    running now, we ran two TD5's on my fuel for 5 years and the one on non-genuine filters went through 3 fuel pumps (they literally stuck together and burnt out) the one with genuine LR filters,mine, still has the same pump!, cheap insurance for your engine!
    Cheers Gregg

  2. #12
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    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Allright thanks for that info on the Filters! - How would I check if the filters i have just now are causing any build up?

    oh so no need to filter my WVO for bio fuel then! that saves me a load of work time and money! haha

    i was offerd a Ecotec 200L processor it comes with
    150l methanol (sealed 25l drums)
    500L WVO
    20kg of sodium carbonate but it looks to have absorbed moisture and is hard?
    all the titration bottles, heating pads, indicators etc
    and books.
    All of this for 1k do you think its worth it?

  3. #13
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    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Hi TomReade,
    Quote Originally Posted by TomReade View Post
    Allright thanks for that info on the Filters! - How would I check if the filters i have just now are causing any build up?
    Excellent question. In the 12 years I have been making biodiesel this is the first time I have heard about non-original fuel filters releasing plasticizers into the fuel and ruining fuel pumps.
    More information is needed at this point to find out how this problem was diagnosed. Even then I personalty would not be concerned.

  4. #14
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    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    I do not know the specific processor you have listed - but getting 500L of decent WVO and 150L Methanol for the 1K (pounds i assume ?) sounds reasonable to me.

    If the processor is cone bottomed and has various plumbing fittings etc then it sounds like a bargain

    Not sure what the Sodium Carbonate is for - you want either NaOH or KOH for BIO making

    Craig
    Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
    210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

    Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

    30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
    Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

    50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

  5. #15
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    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Hi all,
    First of all ,I forgot I was not on the Landrover forum and people may not be familiar with the TD5 fuel system...my bad!!. TD5's have no injection pump ,each pot has it's own unit injector driven off the camshaft to compress the fuel, then a electronic injector delivers the fuel, so each cylinder has it's own pump and injector, very flash for it's time and delivers great performance from a 2.5 l engine.Now, in the fuel tank is a two stage electric pump which sucks fuel from the tank and pumps fuel into the filter, then back into the high pressure side of the pump ,then up to the fuel rail, it's basically the first "common rail" 4wd engine. The plastcisiers get into the high pressure side of the pump and "glue" the impellor to the housing, we have seen this on 3 seperate occasions,all on the car with the non-genuine filter, the fuel tank also smells like a tin of oil-based paint this is a dead give away that the fuel is compromised. Now....on a older car with a mechanical pump, this is not so much a problem,BUT!!, with my previous 300 TDi it was a problem after a year or so, the goveror started to surge and made the car hard to drive smooth, had the pump pulled down , no damage but full of "glue", we thought it was glycerine and carried on!!!. It took another 3 years of trial and error and wonderfull mates who let their cars be test dummies to finally realise that the only common denominator in all the vehicles was the filters. The plasticers are so fine they cannot be filtered out, they are a liquid essentially and very clean!!,they also build up in the fuel as it returns hot from the engine, on the 3rd pump failure of my mates TD5, I sugested the only difference was the filter??, the tank was drained of the smelly fuel, filter changed to a genuine, filled with new fuel from my processor (same as allways) and new pump fitted...that was 3 years ago and it's still going strong with no smell!
    I have other stories about other cars I supply with fuel, but I'm sick of typing now!! me tradesman...not typist!
    Hope this helps.
    Cheers Gregg

  6. #16
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    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Hi
    Gregg,
    Quote Originally Posted by Threegees View Post
    Hi all,
    ...The plastcisiers get into the high pressure side of the pump and "glue" the impellor to the housing, we have seen this on 3 seperate occasions,...
    Let's just stop here for a second. How was it determined that the "glue" was plasticizers from the fuel filter? Just saying it is does not mean it is. There must have been some meaningful scientific testing performed to come to such an unusual conclusion.



    the fuel tank also smells like a tin of oil-based paint this is a dead give away that the fuel is compromised.
    Interesting that you bring that up. For the last several days I have been cleaning out old plastic 20 litre containers that I have stored biodiesel in. They all smell exactly as you describe and the liquid in them is quite thick. This is referred to as oxidation and polymerization. It has nothing to do with plasticizers emanating from non-original fuel filters.



    ...I sugested the only difference was the filter??, the tank was drained of the smelly fuel, filter changed to a genuine, filled with new fuel from my processor (same as allways) and new pump fitted...that was 3 years ago and it's still going strong with no smell!
    I am getting the feeling that there was not actually any real testing performed.
    You removed the contaminated fuel, replaced the fuel filter, and the car has run fine ever since. Sounds good to me




    I have other stories about other cars I supply with fuel, but I'm sick of typing now!! me tradesman...not typist!
    Over the last 12 years I have heard a lot of stories about biodiesel too. Many them were not accurate.

    PS If there was actually any meaningful testing performed I would sure like to read it. A hyperlink would be great.
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 19th April 2013 at 05:40 AM.

  7. #17
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    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Hi Tilly,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs p;&nbsp;&nbsp; First point, we tested two indentical vehicles side by side for nearly 5 yrs and over 100 00km, the one with non genuine filters failed three fuel pumps(in tank electric) and the other is still running the same pump. the only difference being the filter, I can't see how you fail to see this is a legitament test? Once the filter was changed , the vehicle was run on the same fuel and since then, nearly 3 yrs, no further problems have arisen. Once again , the only difference was a different filter, I have been making Bio-dsiesel for nearly 16 yrs and have had many different engines running side by side to do comparisons on, I'm not a mechanic or chemist, but I've had a lot of time to know what works and dosen't. It took several attempts to find a suitable filter for the fuel processor, Delphi seems to be the best I found, Ryco and fleetguard were the two worst for being affected by the fuel, the Fleetguard lost it's paint and the paper swelled in a very short time.<br><br>As far as "meaningful scientific testing" goes , I don't keep charts or write reports, I just make fuel and learn from my mistakes and results, as far as I'm concerned, if a tank of fuel changes it's smell in the car, something is not right !&nbsp; Whether you call them polymers or whatever, I know what worked for me and in my case, making fuel for other people, I have to be confident in the product I make, and apart from the vehicle I mentioned, we haven't had one fuel related breakdown in ten yrs .. touch wood!!. <br><br>In the early days we had problems using flexible PVC tube in the plant , but once that was replaced with nylon and viton , that solved stickiness in the fuel, but that took a long time to discover as well!, no internet for me back then, just books !<br><br>I'm just trying to pass on some advice I've learnt over the yrs?<br><br>PS, I haven't got a clue what a "hyperlink" is<img class="inlineimg" title="Wink" border="0" alt="" src="http://www.biofuelsforum.com/images/smilies/wink.png" smilieid="4"><br><br>Cheers Gregg

  8. #18
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    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    3gs,
    It looks like you typed your response in a web page editor.
    Please use notepad or type straight into the reply panel. All of the "&nbsp;","&nbsp" and "<br>". etc are making your reply difficult to read.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 20th April 2013 at 12:14 AM.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  9. #19
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    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Hi Tilly , I did post a long and detailed reply, but I see it isn't up yet?

    Gregg

  10. #20
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    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Tom , sounds like a rip off to me. Im currently living in wiltshire, UK and that is a steep price. If your ever down these parts let me know and ill run you through the basics if you like.
    Cheers
    Nick.
    Harold 2002 Toyota Landcruiser 105 series. 4.2lt turbo glide turbo, Too lazy to make bio nowdays times money. 3'' lift.

    Roidio 2001 Holden Rodeo 4x4 2.8L TD. 2.5" exhaust sytem, H/E shower system. 4" Lift, Airbags, And lots of fruit, B100 for 55,000 . SOLD

    Elsa 1983 Mercedes-Benz W123 300D. Still The Fastest Merc in Oz, Self built and Female proofed. COUSINS NOW

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