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Thread: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    5

    Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Hi
    I Live in Scotland on a small Island where our fuel prices have reached 1.52 a L of Diesel! Hence why i am now wanting to use WVO to Fuel my Land rover Defender 300TDI (She is a thirsty Bugger!)

    I have already set up one 45 gallon drum and have about 40gallons of 25micron filtered WVO.

    I am planning to run on a 50:50 or as close as I can. And probably end up making Bio Diesel later this year after i see how my landrover runs on the WVO.

    Here is my Plan for my set up.

    The Orange lines are pipes. and the red circles on them are Valves.


    1. I simply pour the WVO into the first tank through three filters 200Micron 50micron and 25micron.
    2. I will then let it sit for a week or so then I can pump it to the next tank through a 5Micron filter.
    3. Once in the tank i Can heat it using a heating element and a thermostat to keep it at about 100C until the water evaporates off? While this is on i can circulate the oil to help air dry it as well?
    4. Once I have done A test for water and i am happy I will pass it through a 1M inline filter while it is still warm into my holding tank

    Is there anything I can do to improve this set up?
    when I am filling the car up do you recommend i mix the Diesel with the veggy oil before i put it in the tank or can i just pour the same amount of each into the tank and let it mix itself?

    Any help would be Greatly appreciated Tom

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    621

    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Hi Tom
    Welcome to the blending forum.
    A few ideas and observations.

    First process is to strip out the fats and solids. I use a nylon filter sock of unknown micron sorry but it holds 99.9percent of fats while letting the oil through.
    It needs 24hr or so to bleed out the liquid golden oil. The sock holds 20litres at a time and the fat residue goes firm and dry-ish.

    At this point I'd add the diesel because it will help drop the water out and make further filtering easier. I'd filter at the ambient temperature you expect to operate your vehicle in. So no added heat. Hot filtering will melt fats and because it's a blend you won't need heat. Settling time is your friend.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,179

    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Tom,
    Welcome to the forum.

    I agree with tbird650, use the mesh filter to remove the fats and larger particles, forget about the staged filtering into the first drum - it is a waste when using a mesh filter and would only block up with fats anyway.

    Can you educate your oil supplier to keep the oil indoors after draining? That way you will not have to do much water removal. (the less water in the oil - the less water needs to come out).

    You may wish to check out our sticky on the WVO forum for vehicles running on WVO to see if your vehicle is amongst them. Check also on the Biodiesel forum for a similar sticky for vehicles using biodiesel.

    In my system, I use 5 micron bag filters and cold filter (no mesh filter in my system) the oil so that any fat remains in the filter, ensuring the oil remains liquid at that ambient temperature. I sew up old T shirt material into liner bags to fit inside the filter bag and I allow the fats to build up in the liner. This improves the filtering rating, but slows the filtering process. When it gets a bit slow, I remove the liner bag and empty it into my fat bucket for a friend to make into biodiesel. I then put the liner back into the filter bag and refill with oil to continue filtering.

    I have seen a 200L drum arranged with 5, 7" filter bags in the top to give a large filtering capacity.

    Best wishes,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    5

    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Right well the only reason im using 3 filters inside each other is to speed up the filtering as they don't clog up nearly as much as just using one i find!

    I Have tried but here in Scotland the rain get EVERYWHERE! so drying is a must i believe!

    Is there a flaw in my design or are you saying its just a little over the top?

    I guess what im looking for as a final product is a perfectly transparent oil no murkiness?

    Is the Murky off yellow color the FATS i am seeing?

    Tom

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    621

    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by TomReade View Post
    I guess what im looking for as a final product is a perfectly transparent oil no murkiness?

    Is the Murky off yellow color the FATS i am seeing?
    I'd suspect fats or water for that. Get those sorted and you're well on the way to golden transparent oil.
    Your approach depends a lot on the treatment the oil got at the source. Some oil comes sparkling while others is laden with fat, water and who knows what else.
    Blenders find that making the blend helps with water dropping out plus the fuel is thinned and subsequently filters much faster.
    Each has their own methods, developed over time. Opinions vary widely. Try some things and gradually create a sustainable method for yourself. Don't give up. It works.

    Become familiar with the hot pan test (HPT) to test oil for water content. Basically, drip oil into a very hot pan. There must be no spitting, popping etc.

    Lastly, spend some time studying the forum threads. There is a huge amount of info here. Spend say half an hour a night for the next couple of weeks. All your questions will be answered and you'll learn about ideas you'd otherwise not think of or otherwise come across.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    829

    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by TomReade View Post
    Hi
    I Live in Scotland on a small Island where our fuel prices have reached £1.52 a L of Diesel! Hence why i am now wanting to use WVO to Fuel my Land rover Defender 300TDI (She is a thirsty Bugger!)

    I have already set up one 45 gallon drum and have about 40gallons of 25micron filtered WVO.

    I am planning to run on a 50:50 or as close as I can. And probably end up making Bio Diesel later this year after i see how my landrover runs on the WVO.

    Here is my Plan for my set up.

    The Orange lines are pipes. and the red circles on them are Valves.

    1. I simply pour the WVO into the first tank through three filters 200Micron 50micron and 25micron.
    2. I will then let it sit for a week or so then I can pump it to the next tank through a 5Micron filter.
    3. Once in the tank i Can heat it using a heating element and a thermostat to keep it at about 100C until the water evaporates off? While this is on i can circulate the oil to help air dry it as well?
    4. Once I have done A test for water and i am happy I will pass it through a 1M inline filter while it is still warm into my holding tank
    Is there anything I can do to improve this set up?
    when I am filling the car up do you recommend i mix the Diesel with the veggy oil before i put it in the tank or can i just pour the same amount of each into the tank and let it mix itself?

    Any help would be Greatly appreciated Tom

    Put a drain at the bottom of your 600 litre storage tank and tilt it slightly towards the drain.

    Do not take oil from the very bottom for your car - move your outlet up about 4 inches.

    Regularly drain off 20 - 25 litres from the bottom and put it back through the system

    I personally am a big fan of gravity and upflow settling (but i do not live in Scotland) _ if you have space and time then setup a number of drums in series as a set of upflow settling drums - this will be the most effective way to get your oil clean

    Craig
    Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
    210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

    Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

    30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
    Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

    50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    5

    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Right im back!
    Ive been just simply filtering down to 10 micron with a sock filter then settling and finally throwing it in a old Fryer to make sure its dry before mixing with diesel when its cold.
    So far so good no Build up or problems along the way apart from day one when the fuel filter clogged up after 3 miles!

    Im now looking into making Biodiesel.

    A friend has offered me a Ecotec 200L system it comes with 150l of methanol and all the kit + 500l of oil.
    which I might take him up on.

    Im posting as I was wondering

    What Micron should I filter down to if im making BioDiesel?

    Tom

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    5

    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Quote Originally Posted by craigcurtin View Post

    I personally am a big fan of gravity and upflow settling (but i do not live in Scotland) _ if you have space and time then setup a number of drums in series as a set of upflow settling drums - this will be the most effective way to get your oil clean

    Craig
    I forgot to mention I have indeed made a 1 tank Upflow System but I am looking to make it into a Dual tank set up with a Filter between them.

    I have to say that it works very well I will post a wee Diagram of my set up tomorrow.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    829

    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    No need to filter at all if you are making BIO. What i personally do (as i make BIO for startup and short trips and WVO for long trips) is drop all of my oil into plastic 44 gallon drums - on top of these i have a fine flyscreen mesh to catch any big bits. Once a drum is full i let the oil it for at least a month - i then usually take the top 1/2 of the drum for my WVO (filtering etc still needed) and the bottom 1/2 for my BIO making - all the heavy oils and fats settle to the bottom - just leave the last little bit of each drum as this will contain any free water and heavily contaminated oils/fats.

    This has two benefits - as i am not filtering through socks etc initially my filtering process is sped up dramatically as the oil i am sending through once taken from the top of the drum is nice and thin and clear, it also means i do not have to clean out my filters as often and replace them/wash them.

    The only thing to watch for is the gel point of your BIO as you are making it from the heavier oils etc so they gel point wiill be higher which would i imagine be a concern in winter in Scotland - you could probably get additives to help with this or just try blending the BIO with some ULP - i found this helped a lot when we went skiing last year - my BIO did not gel at all.

    Craig
    Holden Suburban K2500 1998 6.5L Turbo GM engine
    210,000KMs (90,000 on new crate motor)

    Currently 2 tanks in and working - 90 litre BIO tank and main tank of 160L WVO

    30 plate FPHE in Engine bay and Helton Dual coil in rear
    Walbro FRB-5 pusher pumps x 2

    50,000KM on Veg and 10,000Km on B100

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    16

    Re: Newbie Set up Advice needed!

    Hi Tom,
    While I'm not a fan of using SVO, one thing I recommend you do is (and this applies to running Bio as well) is use only genuine LR fuel filters,non-genuine filters are not compatable and release plasticisers into the fuel which stick pumps and injectors,. I have proven this in a 300tdi Disco and a TD5 I"m
    running now, we ran two TD5's on my fuel for 5 years and the one on non-genuine filters went through 3 fuel pumps (they literally stuck together and burnt out) the one with genuine LR filters,mine, still has the same pump!, cheap insurance for your engine!
    Cheers Gregg

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