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Thread: Antioxidants

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    82

    Re: Antioxidants

    I was thinking the same, my dad has a small winery and he has plenty of CO2 at times... but I would need a very long hose to get it here :-)

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Dubbo
    Posts
    188

    Re: Antioxidants

    Am I missing something? CO2 is full of oxidising O2. Why would you bother? Better off using some other inert gas.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    lyndoch south australia
    Posts
    318

    Re: Antioxidants

    take this in jest Cuppatea. fill a large bag with co2,stick your head in it, and enjoy all that oxidising o2 that you seem to think might be there.
    do not do this, very dangerous thing to do.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    930

    Re: Antioxidants

    Winemakers use CO2 to protect the wine from oxidation. They also use Sulphur.

    Tim

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,042

    Re: Antioxidants

    With CO2, the Oxygen is bound up with the Carbon and is a particularly stable gas.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol)
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe.(body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car) [sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



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  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    930

    Re: Antioxidants

    We are not the only ones who struggle with the oxidation of vegetable oil.

    The food industry for one must take measures to address oxidation, and also I found today a paper discussing the use of vegetable oils as quenching oils in machine shops. http://qrc.fsb.hr/wp-content/uploads...Cavtat_-09.pdf
    That paper found Ciba IRGANOX L 57 to be the best of the antioxidants for their purpose.



    In the article at http://tinyurl.com/mtx6r8o relating to the food industry, they confirm our own observations:
    "Oxidation ... is enhanced by prolonged or bad storage conditions of either crude oil or refined/bleached oil." referring to vegetable oil.

    They also say the following, which will make sense to those with an understanding of chemistry - i.e. not me.
    "The peroxide value (PV) is a good indication of oxidation, but as this test is empirical, the results are not stable regarding the test conditions. Since PV measures hydroperoxides (which are transitory), the test is supported by the p-Anisidine value (p-AV) to give a better view of oil oxidation. If a low p-AV (less than three) is found combined with a low PV, then it indicates there is no significant loss of natural antioxidant from the oil (Podmore, 1990; Oliver and Roland Meyer, 2004; Wong, 1989). Oil oxidation is usually characterized by the Totox (Total Oxidation) value that includes the results from the peroxide and the p-AV measurements (Patterson, 1994; Shahidi and Zhong, 2005; Shahidi and Wanasundara, 2002; Min and Hyung-Ok, 1999)."


    There are also a series of charts at http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine and this one shows the iodine value or vegetable oils, which equates to it's oxidative stability - ie. the likelihood of you getting gunge in your tank.

    There is an old thread that contains excellent commentary and also recommends IRGANOX L-57 antioxidant. Where to get it seems problematic.
    http://www.biofuelsforum.com/threads...eed-oil-photos

    A more recent thread is http://www.biofuelsforum.com/threads...lean-fuel-tank covering similar issues.


    Any other updates?

    Tim
    Toyota Landcruiser 1988 HJ61 Manual Wagon
    12H-T turbo Direct Injection.
    Twin Tank setup runs on 100% WVO after warm up. 30 plate FPHE with 80C output, 12mm fuel lines
    Start up and shut down electric fuel pump feeds IP direct.
    Front 4WDSytstems Lokka, Rear ARB airlokka for quick escapes up sandhills. Performance GTurbo with 600mm FMIC gives 450nm @ 1700rpm at 20psi boost.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    perth
    Posts
    33

    Re: Antioxidants

    If you wanted to add a gas to your system to exclude oxygen, the best source is nitrogen. It's used widely industrially for this very puropse, and is therefore pretty cheap (although I couldn't give you a price off the top of my head).

    But the other question I have is filtration. With the SVO system I am setting up, the fuel will be going through a Frantz 1 micron filter immediately prior to the IP, so that should pull out any oligomers or polymers that are forming in the fuel

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