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Thread: Blending issues

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Entrance (NSW) Australia
    Posts
    6

    Blending issues

    What is the ratio when using shellite compared to using is it still ULP 80% oil to 20%ULP .I have also running a DUDADIESEL heat exchanger Can somebody please help.I also clean my WVO using a us filtermaxxx centrifuge.Cause Iam having trouble with a wax build up in filters and I thought that Shellite my help disperse the wax.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,182

    Re: Blending issues

    whathe,
    Welcome back to the forum. It has been a long time since you posted here.
    I have moved this post into its own thread as it seems to relate more to your issues with "wax" than with blending with 'Blending with Naptha'.

    Have you taken a sample of your "wax" and tested it to see if it is actually a high melting point oil? High melting point oils can be problematic in some vehicles.
    To remove the high melting point (HMP) oils, I usually 'cold' filter the oil to remove any solids. Any of the HMP oils which are solid or semi-solid will be caught in the filter.
    A centrifuge will not remove HMP oils or waxes or anything else which has a density very close to the density of your oil. Centrifuges also seem to work best when the oil is heated (the HMP oils are fully liquid at these temperatures). Long term settling (>2 months) also works well at removing the HMP oils.

    In relation to your blend of Oil and ULP, I have found, in my car, that a blend of 10% ULP is the maximum I can use before the fuel consumption increases significantly.

    You may wish to update your location in your profile. "Australia" is pretty vague and it would be difficult for members to advise you on issues which may be related to your climate.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Entrance (NSW) Australia
    Posts
    6

    Re: Blending issues

    Thanks tony I appreciate your help .I have stopped production of my Bio fuel until I figure out how to get around this problem one thought was to have a 10 micron filter bag on the outlet of the centrifuge just to grab any wax or any other unwanted particles before it goes in to my main blending drum what do you think ?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,182

    Re: Blending issues

    whathe,
    Are you heating the oil for centrifuging?
    If so, the filter will not collect any fats.
    Have you tested your 'wax'?
    Good to see your profile has been updated.
    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Entrance (NSW) Australia
    Posts
    6

    Re: Blending issues

    No tony Iam not preheating the oil before it goes into the centrifuge .How do you test the wax .But I think I will clean it then let it sit for a then blend it ?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,182

    Re: Blending issues

    Warm up a sample of your 'wax' to see if it melts. Take note the temperature that it happens at and report back here.


    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    west of the blackstump sometimes
    Posts
    16

    Re: Blending issues

    You may consider the following stepwise approach:

    1. Blend
    2. Cool (ideally the coolest temperature the fuel will be exposed to on a cold start but not critically) for 12 hours.
    3. Re-centrifuge or settle and/or filter (10 microns if not 5) to separate at the cooler temp.

    PS Only Kerosine dissolves wax if that's what it is, And it's origin may well be the old dino deposits in your fuel tank. For this and other reasons I would not use anything but Kerosine for blending or avgas if you can get it (and don't mind breaching another federal and or state statute or two besides the ones you already do. There is a way around this but it is too polluting for me to tell you.)
    Last edited by bushpig; 1st February 2014 at 01:30 PM. Reason: forgot/assumed knowledge

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
    Posts
    2,009

    Re: Blending issues

    Hi Bushpig, when you said avgas do you mean Avtur/ Jet A1?

    Avgas is a petrol based fuel used in piston engines.
    Avtur/ Jet A1 is kerosene possibly with additives and is used in jet engines.

    A couple of years ago I asked the price of a 200 litre drum of kerosene at my local depot and was told $400.
    I did not chase it further.

    It is my understanding that nowdays ALL kerosene is produced on the Jet A1 production line because jet fuel is by far the biggest user of kerosene.
    Then any kerosene that is needed for other uses such as motor fuel like number 1 diesel/ Alpine Diesel or the little blue 1 litre bottles you buy in the store comes from Jet A1 production.
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 1st February 2014 at 02:01 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    west of the blackstump sometimes
    Posts
    16

    Re: Blending issues

    Ahh yes Tilly, I did mean the kerosene based variety which I thought was avgas but I have never bought the stuff so my ignorance as to the true naming of it. Of course; even if I thought different I would always defer to you, of all people, about aviation fuels.....

    I last bought a 200l drum Kerosene in Moree for less than $200, but that is now some years ago. I think I brought my own drum though. I will enquire Monday and let you know.

    BP

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    300

    Re: Blending issues

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post

    It is my understanding that nowdays ALL kerosene is produced on the Jet A1 production line because jet fuel is by far the biggest user of kerosene.
    Then any kerosene that is needed for other uses such as motor fuel like number 1 diesel/ Alpine Diesel or the little blue 1 litre bottles you buy in the store comes from Jet A1 production.
    Having bought Jet A1 from the local airport on numerous occasions, I don't think they are the same end product although domestic kero may be the base stock for the Jet.
    The stuff I know to be Jet fuel is very different stuff to the kero you get in bottles. The most noticeable thing is the additives of jet fuel, which I believe to be mainly anti freeze, that is left on funnels and anything you spill the jet onto. It leaves a substantial powdery deposit when it dries and it tends to burn the skin if left in contact. I know the guys at the fuel depot at the airport don't like filling the drums for this reason.
    Avgas they don't care about, when you ask for Jet they start donning the PPE like they are filming a safety instruction Video.

    They may pull the domestic kero off the line before they add the jet additives which would be logical but it's certainly not as far as I can see anything like the same end product.

    I have priced Kero from Chemical Companies and even managed to find a servo still selling it but they wanted about $1 a litre more than I could get the Avgas for last time I checked. Since then I just go to the airport with the metal jerry cans they insist on and tell them it's for parts washing. They won't sell it to you if you say you are going to use it in a vehicle due to not being taxed.

    I remember when I was a kid that kero was everywhere. The only reason a servo wouldn't have it at the pump was if they had ran out and were waiting on more. I used to go with my grandfather to buy it in all sorts of drums and funny styled but purpose made containers. He had pressure stoves, blow lamps, heaters and even a fridge at the onsite Caravan at Kiama that ran on it.
    He had this Home remedy concoction he used to make up which consisted of Kero, Cleaned lard and I think Epsom salts. It ended up like a paste he used to Bottle as a topical ointment for everything from cracked heals to the black Plague.

    It must have done some thing, I remember many Neighbours and friends constantly coming and asking if he had any to spare and bring contributions of lard for the next batch. My grandmother would keep a close eye on stocks and put away a good supply of her own as running out of it was something she didn't want to contemplate. The kero smell was very strong and once he added some scent to it but all the oldies reckoned it wasn't as good without the kero smell.

    He'd have had a heart attack and died if he hadn't already if he saw kero at the supermarket for upwards of $5 a litre.
    Probably didn't pay that much for a boot full of it when I went with him to get it.

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