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Thread: Piston Slap?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    239

    Re: Piston Slap?

    Thanks Guys,
    I ran the Navara on straight ATF for short periods a few times to clean the system and I think it helped. The engine certainly ran smooth.
    I also set up a water injection system on the Navara and I know that that blew some rubbish out of the system (especially when i first did it and miscalculated the amount of water being injecting and pumped about ten times what I should have in!)

    I'm inclined to suspect an injector issue. However as the engine is running so well with no loss of power whatsoever and only the intermittent noise on occasional startups, I think I will hang in there a while before pulling injectors.
    If symptoms worsen then I'll get into it. Might run some proprietary cleaner through initially and see if that makes a difference.

    Never changed injectors but don't imagine it would be much harder than changing glow plugs of which I've changed many. I'll inquire from the local diesel specialist if the injectors on the Musso are reconditionable. New ones are around $140 each.
    Laurie

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    239

    Re: Piston Slap?

    I picked up some diesel injector cleaner today and will post the results after I have emptied the tank.
    Laurie

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    239

    Re: Piston Slap?

    Hi All,
    Just an update....
    After running almost two tanks of fuel with Nulon injector cleaner I think that things are a little better.
    The intermittent rattle/light clunking/tapping sound (intermittent in occurrence, not at the time that it occurs) is usually there at startup but not on subsequent starts that day.
    It lasts for maybe 10-15 secs and then goes away. This is the case whether I rev the engine a little following startup or leave it at idle.
    No indications of low oil pressure at startup and I think that if it was an engine oil lube issue it wouldn't sound as tinny and also would disappear within a few secs after startup.
    Over fuelling has been suggested by a diesel specialist which brings me back to injectors. The same specialist is very experienced on the Musso Sports however and said that he has never had to replace any injectors in them.
    WVO use has saved me thousands and in fact has paid for the vehicle so new injectors at some point are no problem. Overhaul costs are similar to the price of new injectors.
    It would be interesting just to see what impact the vege has had on the injectors after 130K.
    I think I'll wait things out for the time being and see if the improvement continues.
    Aside from the noise, the vehicle has never run as well with plenty of power and easy starting.
    Thanks for the advice.
    Laurie

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,075

    Re: Piston Slap?

    The rattle you hear is called 'injector nailing' and is due to poor atomisation of the fuel.

    No need to replace the injectors, service them and, if necessary, replace just the nozzles.
    You could check for a wreckers who have similar vehicles and just buy a set of injectors from them (only if the price is right) you could be lucky and get a good set with no nailing.
    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    239

    Re: Piston Slap?

    Yes Tony spot on.
    I just came across this vid which describes it all.
    My engine is only in the very early stages of this noise.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dseUEVVGsAw
    Laurie

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    239

    Re: Piston Slap?

    and this one. Great reference to use of vege oil (or more bio) towards the end of it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4E28hDgXCw

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    239

    Re: Piston Slap?

    Hi All,

    Just an update. After running several bottles of commercial good quality injector cleaner and also a few % of ULP in several tanks, there seems top be little change in the startup noise.

    Again, it goes within 10-15 secs of startup and only occurs at or near idle.

    No worsening of the symptom so will hang in there for now

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
    Posts
    1,916

    Re: Piston Slap?

    Hi Lozzer,

    Quote Originally Posted by Lozzer View Post
    Hi All,

    Just an update. After running several bottles of commercial good quality injector cleaner and also a few % of ULP in several tanks...
    If you checked the MSDS of Nulon Diesel injector cleaner you will find that it is mostly white spirit/ Mineral turpentine/ stoddart solvent mixed with a bit of Kerosene..
    If you go to Bunnings you will find that buying the ingredients to make your own Diesel injector cleaner cost a lot less than the $40 you will pay for a litre of Nulon diesel cleaner.
    https://jr.chemwatch.net/CWWS/Materi...C70F01DB&mtt=1
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 28th March 2016 at 09:49 PM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    239

    Re: Piston Slap?

    thnx tilly
    i recall looking into it some time back but couldn't clarify if white spirit is mineral turpentine which I don't think it is. Not sure exactly what white spirit is...maybe dry cleaning fluid.
    I guess at some point an amount of solvent fuel additive is going to erode cylinder lubrication.
    What ratio do you think is too high?

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brisbane (North Side)
    Posts
    687

    Re: Piston Slap?

    Hey Lozzer, not sure if you have this fixed yet, but my cruiser started making the same sounds for a while now but I hadn't got around to addressing it until recently. I changed out the driveshaft seal on the fuel pump again (as the prick who did the pump up for me 60,000 km ago didn't put Viton back in even though he was told too) and ofcourse re-timed the fuel pump when I fitted it back on. Well I went to a bit of effort to time it properly this time, bought the correct tools etc, and the difference is remarkable. it is so very quiet now, runs so much smoother and virtually no smoke at all.reading your post got me thinking. the cruiser has a cold start advance leaver which is operated via a thermo-wax plunger. basically as the coolant temp increases, the timing retards to its normal running timing setting. if your timing was already advanced and you had such a device fitted to your pump, then the timing at cold may be too far out of tolerance and you may be experiencing injector nailing (high fuel pressure too early compared with cylinder pressure) simply due to injector timing, not injector condition? As the engine warms up this effect would be nullified.once I worked out how to properly time the cruiser, its a pretty simple process and the results were well worth while. I am not sure how this relates to your fuel pump (or even if your fuel pump is a rotary), but it may be worth considering.A quick google search gave me the correct timing specifications for my pump as the info I had unfortunately did not suit my engine. first time I timed it and re-assembled it, it ran like dogs-balls. a little more research and I found the sweet spot.
    Regards,

    Cade.

    2002 100 series Landcruiser
    240,000 Km and counting on B100, 330,000km total on car.
    Naturally aspirated, Walbro Pusher pump just upstream of tank switch valves, Cav filter with reversed fuel flow direction.
    At 160,000 km Rebuilt pump, Reconditioned head and manifolds, glow plugs. Injectors all good after 160,000 km on B100.

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