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Thread: Piston Slap?

  1. #21
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    Re: Piston Slap?

    Hi Lozzer,


    Quote Originally Posted by Lozzer View Post
    thnx tilly
    i recall looking into it some time back but couldn't clarify if white spirit is mineral turpentine which I don't think it is. Not sure exactly what white spirit is...maybe dry cleaning fluid.
    I guess at some point an amount of solvent fuel additive is going to erode cylinder lubrication.
    What ratio do you think is too high?
    From Wikipedia-
    "White spirit (UK)[note 1] or mineral spirits (US),[1][2][3] also known as mineral turpentine, turpentine substitute, petroleum spirits, solvent naphtha (petroleum), varsol, Stoddard solvent,[4][5] or, generically, "paint thinner", is a petroleum-derived clear liquid used as a common organic solvent in painting and decorating."

    Diggers White Spirits (home dry cleaning fluid) is a widely used hydrocarbon solvent that provides good solvency with controlled evaporation.
    $8.25 per litre from Bunnings
    From MSDS- Low Aromatic White Spirit CAS number 64742-82-1






    However, if you buy it in a bottle labeled "diggers mineral Turpentine" it will only cost you $2.97 a litre.
    From the MSDS- Low Aromatic White Spirit CAS number 64742-82-1





    At the tiny amounts recommended (300ml per tankful) I do not think it will make any difference other than making your wallet lighter.


    QUICK EDIT
    From the Nulon Diesel Injector Cleaner MSDS- CAS Number 64742-82-1. >60
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 2nd April 2016 at 08:31 PM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Piston Slap?

    If the CAS numbers are the same, as they are in this case, there is no doubt ti is the same stuff, just by another name.

  3. #23
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    Re: Piston Slap?

    Hi Qwarla,

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwarla View Post
    If the CAS numbers are the same, as they are in this case, there is no doubt ti is the same stuff, just by another name.
    And at a very different price.
    If it is in a labeled "Nulon Diesel Injector cleaner" it will cost about $46.27 a litre from SuperCheap.
    If it is label "Diggers Mineral Turpentine" it will cost about $2.97 a litre from Bunnings.
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 2nd April 2016 at 08:56 PM.

  4. #24
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    Re: Piston Slap?

    Are you saying white spirits and turps are the same? Seems quite different to me.
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 170,000km on WVO,(2017) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids. Mk. 9 version. Improvements under investigation

  5. #25
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    Re: Piston Slap?

    Hi Johnojack

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnojack View Post
    Are you saying white spirits and turps are the same? Seems quite different to me.
    MINERAL Turps is the same as White Spirits.
    Pure Gum Turpentine is different and costs 11.98 a litre from Bunnings

  6. #26
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    Re: Piston Slap?

    Hang on, back that truck up a bit. So by that rational dry cleaners use turps to clean your $500 suit??? WTF do they use to get the smell out after? Ain't no amount of camphor gunna hide that. I must have missed something.

    I fear i have gone off topic a tad. Sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    Hi Johnojack

    MINERAL Turps is the same as White Spirits.
    Pure Gum Turpentine is different and costs 11.98 a litre from Bunnings
    Regards,

    Cade.

    2002 100 series Landcruiser
    240,000 Km and counting on B100, 330,000km total on car.
    Naturally aspirated, Walbro Pusher pump just upstream of tank switch valves, Cav filter with reversed fuel flow direction.
    At 160,000 km Rebuilt pump, Reconditioned head and manifolds, glow plugs. Injectors all good after 160,000 km on B100.

  7. #27
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    Re: Piston Slap?

    Hi Captaincademan,

    Quote Originally Posted by Captaincademan View Post
    Hang on, back that truck up a bit. So by that rational dry cleaners use turps to clean your $500 suit??? WTF do they use to get the smell out after? Ain't no amount of camphor gunna hide that. I must have missed something.
    From Wikipedia
    Modern dry cleaning use of non-water-based solvents to remove soil and stains from clothes was reported in 1855.
    The potential for using petroleum-based solvents such as gasoline and kerosene was recognized by French dye-works operator Jean Baptiste Jolly, who offered a new service that became known as nettoyage sec—i.e., dry cleaning.[1][2]
    Flammability concerns led William Joseph Stoddard, a dry cleaner from Atlanta, to develop Stoddard solvent (white spirit) as a slightly less flammable alternative to gasoline-based solvents.
    The use of highly flammable petroleum solvents caused many fires and explosions, resulting in government regulation of dry cleaners.
    After World War I, dry cleaners began using chlorinated solvents. These solvents were much less flammable than petroleum solvents and had improved cleaning power.
    By the mid-1930s, the dry cleaning industry had adopted tetrachloroethylene (perchloroethylene), or "perc" for short, as the solvent. It has excellent cleaning power and is stable, nonflammable, and gentle to most garments. Perc, however, was incidentally the first chemical to be classified as a carcinogen by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission

  8. #28
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    Re: Piston Slap?

    Hi tilly,

    Thanks for informative and money saving advice. Much appreciated.
    I do share some confusion with the other guys however. See below. As the composition on MSDSs for each are the same I guess that says it enough.

    In regard to how much injector cleaner is safe to use, there must be some point where the ratio of cleaner to fuel is too high. Some YouTube artists propose hooking up a jar of straight injector cleaner temporarily or filling the fuel filer with injector cleaner. I must admit to doing this with ATF on the old Navara many years ago. It ran smoothly by the way on 500ml.

    Would certainly clean something! I think I'd prefer mixing the injector cleaner in tank to dilute but was wondering if say 1lt to an 80 lt tank is too harsh.

    You run a Musso from memory. Have you had any injector issues before that may be related to WVO?

    Talk:Mineral spirits

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Chemistry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of chemistry on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
    Redirect This redirect does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.
    This article has comments here.
    Please note that Mineral Turpentine and White Spirits/Mineral Spirits are not equivalent. Mineral Turpentine generally has a very high aromatic content while WS/MS can be specified to be low in aromatics. The two are often put to different uses, Low aromatic WS/MS burns with a hot, clean flame and so can be used in stoves and as a fuel in general, whereas Mineral Turpentine is most often used as a solvent. Even though there is a lot of cross-over, the two should not be confused. The very name mineral turpentine is misleading since it contains no terpenes (cf wood turpentine). Use of the more general name High Aromatic White Spirit or Mineral Spirit is very unlikely to be widely used outside of specific industries.



    Last edited by Lozzer; 3rd April 2016 at 07:41 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Piston Slap?

    Hi Lozzer,

    Quote Originally Posted by Lozzer View Post
    Hi tilly,

    Thanks for informative and money saving advice. Much appreciated.
    I do share some confusion with the other guys however. See below. As the composition on MSDSs for each are the same I guess that says it enough.
    I am aware that there are often different names for the same substance and the same name is also used for different substances.
    I am talking about the CAS Regestry number .
    As stated in the above post The CAS number for the Diggers White Spirit and the Diggers Mineral Turpentine are identical- 64742-82-1.
    This indicates that for all purposes they are the same thing.

    The MSDS for Nulon Diesel injector cleaner shows that it also consists of over 60% CAS number 64742-82-1.
    It then says that between 1- 10% is CAS number64742-47-8- This turns out to be kerosene
    Next there is 0- 10% CAS number 104-76-7 which is 2-ethyl hexanol. If included, this is probably used to make it smell nice. Of course there might not be any of this in the mix so it must not be important.
    Then there might or might not be less than 1% dye and less than 1% anti-foam.

    So the way I read the MSDS, Nulon Diesel injector cleaner could be as much as 99% CAS number 64742-82-1 with as little as 1% kerosene.
    The exact mixture probably dependant on what half full drums of chemicals are sitting around needing to be used up.




    In regard to how much injector cleaner is safe to use, there must be some point where the ratio of cleaner to fuel is too high.
    There certainly might be. Maybe it is not safe to use any of it.



    Some YouTube artists propose hooking up a jar of straight injector cleaner temporarily or filling the fuel filer with injector cleaner.
    I am sure you will find many different recommendations on YouTube. Do you trust their advice?
    Personally I wouldn't.



    I must admit to doing this with ATF on the old Navara many years ago. It ran smoothly by the way on 500ml.
    My musso runs smoothly on straight biodiesel.





    Would certainly clean something!
    Would it? I would not know.





    I think I'd prefer mixing the injector cleaner in tank to dilute but was wondering if say 1lt to an 80 lt tank is too harsh.
    Why do you think your injectors require cleaning?
    1 litre of Nulon diesel injector cleaning fluid will cost around $45.
    I litre of Diggers Mineral turps will cost around $3
    I suspect that mixing 1 litre of this magical fluid into an 80 litre tank will be no more harmful than mixing 1 litre of petrol into an 80 litre tank.
    And I can guarantee that you will be able to detect an amazing increase in performance.
    Especiallyif you used the $45 version





    You run a Musso from memory. Have you had any injector issues before that may be related to WVO?
    No. 275,000km and not a problem
    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 3rd April 2016 at 10:24 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Piston Slap?

    When I started this thread I was concerned that the brief rattling noise that I could often hear on start up was piston slap as a mechanic mate suggested.
    Further investigation has shown that its injector nailing as per Tony's suggestion.
    I spoke with a SS specialist with a good rep and he told me that he has never had to replace Musso injectors.
    So I suspect that there is some injector issue related to my long term use of WVO. Not bothered by this as firstly there seems to be no reduction in performance over time and in fact the Sports runs better now than ever, and secondly as use of WVO has more than paid for the car.
    Enquiries for injector overhaul indicate a similar cost for overhaul as for buying new ones. So I'll wait for now and if the performance deteriorates I'll probably replace with Bosio nozzles.

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