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Thread: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    192

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Harvey,

    Your system sounds good and the proof is in the results you are experiencing, which are similar to my own. The biggest thing I noticed was how much faster the boost pressure builds once the the spray kicks in - seems like twice as fast. The difference with mine is that I don't think it stops spraying until manifold pressure drops below the set point, whereas yours cuts out at an upper limit. Also sounds like yours adjusts the flow rate proportionally to boost pressure, whereas mine is quite binary - on or off. At present it is set around 4 PSI also. I'm not exactly sure as it is a rotary dial you adjust with a small allen key. Looking at my boost gauge, I feel the power start to surge around 4 - 6 PSI.

    I am having variable results with the quantity of 'boost juice' I'm using. I did an 80 km round-trip in heavy Sydney traffic a couple of weekends ago, with some long 80 - 90 km/h stretches, going fairly hard on the loud pedal and used probably 4 litres. But other times I've got more than 100 km out of a 5L tank. I also experimented with using 100% water and initially felt no difference in power at all. I've since gone back to a 50/50 ratio, but will definitely try pure water again.

    The previous owner of my car was using much bigger nozzles and getting even more power, but also draining the tank very quickly. He claimed to have hit 21 PSI at full noise, burning off a Nissan Patrol with an RB30 (VL Turbo Commodore) engine in it. I'm skeptical of this last claim, but I suggest you try your bigger nozzles and see what happens. Unlike my fairly clapped out old OM617, your OM605 is less likely to put a piston through the side of the block at 6000 RPM.

    Looking forward to hearing more and seeing pics. I will also try to post some.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    39

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Tony, 3DB, et al
    Mercedes C250TD Water Meth Install Update:
    3DB, I drove 30km city suburban max speed 80kmh yesterday water only. Ditto today with bigger injection nozzle. Result?? I felt the bigger nozzle improved time to get to higher boost, and around 13psi it seemed to have a short (1 second) period where acceleration kicked in intensely then went back to normal boost. I couldn't notice any spike on my boost gauge, however there 'appeared' to be this momentary short space in time when power improved exponentially. Had I been driving with a few ales under the belt I would have put it down to that, but I don't, and don't have a theory on why.
    Tony, re install on MB C250TD haven,t posted pics before, so will try now: wish me luck

    nope, tried 'manage attachments' after making the pics crap quality of about 35k but doesn't work. will try something else. I have one of those dropbox things but not sure how to operate. stay posted haha
    Harvey
    1983 BJ42 Landcruiser
    1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    39

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,082

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Harvey,
    Where is the water injected? before or after the intercooler? I cannot see from the photos.
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



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  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    39

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony From West Oz View Post
    Harvey,
    Where is the water injected? before or after the intercooler? I cannot see from the photos.
    Tony
    Tony
    Injection is after the intercooler on top off engine fed by red hose.
    You will note also I removed the standard air filter and installed a sports style $25 from Spercheap, thereby creating space for the tank and pump.
    Snow vc-20 controller purchased Ebay $360. Dealer was Perth based 'Warehouse Direct Performance'. Pump, tank, and bits n pieces were part of a 'Snow' brand kit I picked up from a private seller on gumtree.
    If you want better pics let me know. I note the wiring diagram is pretty blurry also. Perhaps I need to increase the pixels/size.
    The 'Snow' brand gear is pretty top of the market, if you google them they have some really cool high tech injection gear (& prices to match), U.S. based.

    3DB
    Yes the controller varies the rate of water delivery proportional to the level of boost.
    Harvey
    1983 BJ42 Landcruiser
    1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    192

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Harvey,

    Firstly, your engine bay is impressively spotless for a nearly 20-year-old car!

    Your water/meth system is obviously a lot more high-tech than mine. The progressive injection rate seems like a good idea to conserve boost juice among other things.

    Plumbing of the nozzle post-intercooler seems to be the standard approach. Let the intercooler do as much work to reduce heat as it can, then inject and start from a lower temp. The main risk in putting it closer to the combustion chamber would be inadequate atomisation or uneven distribution between cylinders.

    Mine was plumbed straight into the turbo outlet housing by the PO, which I feel was a bit extreme. Because it doesn't have an intercooler the path between turbo and combustion chamber is much shorter, so the theory was to give it as much distance as possible to mix properly.

    Harvey - do you intend to increase the fuel delivery from the IP? I think this is where the water-meth injection comes into its own, reducing the increased combustion temps. I have some instructions on how to do it, but am a bit reluctant due to the age of the engine. I have an EGT gauge it it never gets above about 300C pre-turbo, so there is plenty of room to move temperature-wise...not sure about horsepower and torque though.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    39

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Harvey - do you intend to increase the fuel delivery from the IP? I think this is where the water-meth injection comes into its own, reducing the increased combustion temps. I have some instructions on how to do it, but am a bit reluctant due to the age of the engine. I have an EGT gauge it it never gets above about 300C pre-turbo, so there is plenty of room to move temperature-wise...not sure about horsepower and torque though.[/QUOTE]

    3DB
    I don't have the knowledge and skills to play with the IP. Reluctant to try. I like playing with things to nut out how they work etc, as I suspect many of us do, but fear if I do I will regret it.
    My MB mechanic imports IP pumps from Finland for my engine that increases fuel delivery to achieve an increase in HP from 150 to near 300HP. The young man in me is tempted, but the old man I am can't justify the $5,000 cost into a $5,500 car. But wouldn't it be a hoot !!! Might go buy a Lotto ticket and dream on.
    Harvey
    1983 BJ42 Landcruiser
    1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    192

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Where's your sense of adventure ?

    Those pumps from Finland are probably from Dieselmeken - plug that into youtube and check out the craziness. $5K is definitely too much coin though. I think the main thing he does is upgrade the elements from 5mm to 7.5mm. I have no idea what that physically entails, but it seems to yield spectacular results.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    313

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    With the talk about the whole boost regulated switches and gimmicks raises one question, what would I do on the old 1 Hz with no turbo and if boost gauge? It would only get a on/off switch I guess? Maybe behind the loud pedal, once it's on the floor (and its there quite a bit:-) ) the pump would come on. Or is there a better alternative?
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HZ engine both 75l factory tanks and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    200.000km 80% on bio 10% on WVO 10% on dino,

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,082

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Without a turbo, I would go for the loud pedal switch. That is how I powered the water/ metho injection on my Mazda Capella. It worked for me.
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


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