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Thread: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    189

    Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Hi all,

    A bout 3 or so months ago, I bought an old W123 Merc 300D from a bloke on the Ozbenz Forum. I'd wanted to get one for a while and when this one came up, I couldn't talk myself out of it. I drove down to Melbourne with Timorcoco, filled the tank with biodiesel that we brought along and drove it back to Sydney. Since then I’ve been working on it as necessary to get NSW roadworthy and it is has now been registered for a month or so. The big selling point for me was the custom T4OE turbo with 3" mandrel-bent straight through exhaust that the PO fitted, which makes an otherwise very slow vehicle able to participate in normal traffic. He had also fitted a water-methanol injection system to further increase power and keep EGT’s under control. This system did not come with the car, but, fortuitously, I had already bought one that I was planning to install on my Rodeo ute, so that sealed the deal.

    PO was kind enough to leave all the pipework and wiring from his old one in place and the new one bolted basically straight up.

    Here's a link to the one I had already purchased…fortunately when the AUD was nice and high:

    ‪http://www.coolingmist.com/pagedisplay.aspx?pid=cmstage1&feature_key=turbo_ki ts

    Here's the installation manual:

    ‪http://www.coolingmist.com/coolingmist/instructions/CMS1deluxe.pdf

    If I had my time over, I think the following kit is even better value as it is the older version and is basically the same, just old stock and with a check valve in place of the solenoid, which I haven't installed (yet) anyway.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/161709434...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    I think you would struggle to buy all of the parts for the cost of this and I am very tempted to put a second one in my Rodeo the results are so positive.

    I feel like I've got it dialed in now. The boost pressure switch comes set at 10 PSI from the factory, but is adjustable from 1 - 25 PSI. I feel 10 PSI was a bit too late for this particular turbo as the engine is already screaming by the time it makes 10. I've adjusted it down to about 4 and it makes an amazing difference to driving around town. You can really feel it kick in and the boost pressure climbs much more rapidly than without it. The result is more low-end torque and you don't have to rev it as hard to extract the power. It is effortless driving around town and actually pulls up hills, whereas without it, you can just maintain speed up hills (which I guess is an improvement over a NA 300D anyway). If I do any highway driving I think I will adjust it up to about 6 PSI as it would be on all the time at 100 km/h and I will end up draining the 5 litre tank too quickly. At 6 I think it would just come on when overtaking or on the hills.

    I opted for the smallest option of ‘up to 300 horsepower’ with the smallest nozzle. I believe the PO had one several sizes larger and had the boost switch set much higher, which would have produced a lot more power much higher up in the rev range to the point where the turbo was making up to 21 PSI from memory. In the interest of engine conservation and not going through the 50/50 mix of water/methanol too quickly, I will stick with the small nozzle for the time being. I don’t think I have hit more than 12 – 14 PSI before I chicken out and shift gear.

    Around town, I think I will get at least 100 km, maybe 150 – 200 km, to a 5L tank of ‘boost juice’ under the current settings, depending on how I drive it. I may also try just straight water when this tank runs out to see how much difference that makes.

    If I fit one of these to the Rodeo, I think it will be a (comparatively) formidable weapon.....maybe even able to keep up with some of the slower modern common-rail diesel utes?.....if the clutch holds
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    numurkah
    Posts
    509

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Ive always want to try one of those kit on a NA diesel, Just to see what happens.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    189

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Quote Originally Posted by smithw View Post
    Ive always want to try one of those kit on a NA diesel, Just to see what happens.
    I think it would probably still have positive effects, but maybe not as profound. I think all internal combustion engines would benefit from cooler intake temperatures - denser air charge = more oxygen per gulp of air. It seems like all the manufacturers of the kits have options for NA petrol vehicles.

    I don't know whether it is just limited to just the cooling effects either, or whether the methanol adds some calorific value. The PO of the car reported that higher concentrations of methanol made it go even better, so there may be something in it. Especially as the latent heat of vaporisation is higher for water (2,257 kJ/kg) than methanol (1,100 kJ/kg) - so water sucks more heat out of the system per kg than methanol when if changes from liquid to gas.

    I wonder whether the extra water vapour in the combustion gases generate more gas volume to help drive the turbo better as well.

    I had heard someone suggest that the water can be broken down in to hydrogen and oxygen in the combustion chamber too, but I think that is a myth requiring 2,000+C to break the bonds.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
    Posts
    1,919

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    And you might experience a hydrolock.
    That would be pretty exciting!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,075

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Quote Originally Posted by smithw View Post
    Ive always want to try one of those kit on a NA diesel, Just to see what happens.

    My first Fatmobile was a Mazda Capella 2.0L 5 speed manual station wagon..
    Good city performance but hard to overtake anything at speeds over 100K/h.
    Before I went on a holiday, I installed my own design water injection system using a windscreen washer pump and a plastic spray nozzle in the intake plenum.
    I filled the 4L reservoir with 50:50 water and Methylated Spirits.
    I connected the power to the pump via a switch I installed on the accelerator connection to the IP, so that at full throttle, it activated the pump.
    It made a significant reduction in overtaking times and allowed us to overtake road trains easily.
    I didn't take any records of the overtaking times, top speed while overtaking or even the usage of the injected solution. But, by the seat of my pants, it was definitely worth the work to put it in.

    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



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    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lismore NSW
    Posts
    313

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Good evening guys,

    I have been thinking of adding a water injection to my 1 HZ for some time now, just out of interest, are you using tap water? Would there be any concerns about chlorine or other chemicals causing issues like build ups in the engine? or would the engine be too hot for it?
    1990 Toyota Hilux LN106 with ATG 2 tank system (sold after running 150.000 ks on mainly WVO)
    1993 Toyota 75 Series with 1 HZ engine both 75l factory tanks and a custom 170l under tray tank.
    200.000km 80% on bio 10% on WVO 10% on dino,

    "him who never made a mistake, made no discovery either"


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,075

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    I can't see any chemicals in the water causing any issues with the engine or exhaust.
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    189

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    And you might experience a hydrolock.
    That would be pretty exciting!
    Indeed it would! I love the smell of bent con-rods in the morning!

    Seriously though, I guess it is possible if the boost controller had a fault or there was a wiring issue and the pump was actuated while the engine was off. The way the intake on this vehicle is plumbed, I think most of the water would trickle out the air filter, rather than flow into the cylinders. But I guess I will install that cut-off solenoid sooner rather than later.

    I don't think there is any risk from the low volumes of fine mist that are delivered while the engine is running, however.

    Regarding the chemicals - I am using straight tap water. Here in Sydney the water is fairly soft and low-scale. In areas with hard water there could be issues with clogging of the nozzle with scale, but the pressure is so high from the pump (150+ PSI) it probably wouldn't be an issue.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    39

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    3DB
    Having just installed a Snow vc-20 controlled system on my Mercedes C250TD and taking it for a 20km test run, with pump start at 4psi max 17psi, and I admit giving it the hammer at every opportunity, I used approx .75 of a litre of 70% water 30%methanol. I felt like it resulted in smoother acceleration, boost, and gear changes (auto). I have fitted the smallest delivery nozzle the kit came with. My aim is to reduce the "gumming effects" of wvo, plus yes, the idea of a few more hp sounds fun.
    I'm also wary of the watermeth reducing cylinder lubrication, and possible rust, so will stay with the lower rate nozzle.
    I mainly do a city commute, 15km each way, so will monitor watermeth consumption.
    Would appreciate sharing injection start stop psi and Km per litre with you.
    My current fuel is 70% wvo 30% biodiesel in Brisbane winter."
    Best regards, Harvey
    Last edited by Harvey; 31st July 2016 at 10:18 PM.
    Harvey
    1983 BJ42 Landcruiser
    1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,075

    Re: Water-methanol injection for turbo diesels

    Harvey,
    I will be watching this thread with interest.
    Some photos of your installation, wiring details and the source of your kit would also be appreciated.

    Regards,
    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


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