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Thread: TS2 Lister on Biodiesel 10 years

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    Emmaville NSW
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    6

    TS2 Lister on Biodiesel 10 years

    I have just pulled the heads and barrels off my neighbour's Lister TS2 genset.

    It had a blown head gasket and excessive blow by.

    I'll not get into the causes of these but can only give my observations.

    They have run treated wvo for about 10 years through the engine.

    The valves were stripped from the heads, they had excessive wear with the seats in very poor condition and one piston had a broken compression ring.

    The alarming part was the buildup of 'carbon' ( or some other gunk) in the ports, the exhaust ports were, conservatively, 80% blocked with the inlet ports not far behind.

    The discovery of this material in the inlet manifold was surprising as well.

    The results of various external leaks made it very difficult to clean the outside of the engine before disassembly, using everything from hydrocarbon solvents to potassium hydroxide.

    Looking forward to your opinions.

    Peter
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 2nd August 2016 at 12:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
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    4,079

    TS2 Lister on Biodiesel 10 years

    What treatment was done on the oil?

    It sounds like it was used for 10 years without much maintenance, as evidenced by the 'external leaks'.
    A scraper, caustic and hot water (use correct PPE) should help clean off accumulated polymerised oil from the engine. Sand / bead blasting would be a last resort, but should remove it from the metal.
    With the valve seats in poor condition, I would expect partially combusted fuel to be present in the manifolds. This could also contribute to wear of the valve stems.
    Are you repairing the engine for him or have you acquired it for yourself?
    Can you post some photos please?
    Regards,
    Tony
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 2nd August 2016 at 12:02 AM.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,129

    TS2 Lister on Biodiesel 10 years

    Sounds like it had too light a load for much of the time. Constant rpm motors are not good candidates for wvo.
    BTW Tony one thing that grit blasting is not good at is removing grease.
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 2nd August 2016 at 12:03 AM.
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 170,000km on WVO,(2017) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids. Mk. 9 version. Improvements under investigation

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    39

    Cool Re: TS2 Lister on Biodiesel 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnojack View Post
    Sounds like it had too light a load for much of the time. Constant rpm motors are not good candidates for wvo.
    BTW Tony one thing that grit blasting is not good at is removing grease.
    Agreed
    Any diesel lightly loaded will glaze bores resulting in high oil consumption. 10 years with low load and maybe little maintenance? Thank the beauty of a Lister!! Would love it as part of an off grid system I'm planning but the dBa would exceed the neighbours patience I think
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 2nd August 2016 at 12:03 AM.
    Harvey
    1983 BJ42 Landcruiser
    1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz

  5. #5
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    Dec 2006
    Location
    Townsville, North Queensland
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    Re: TS2 Lister on Biodiesel 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
    Agreed
    Thank the beauty of a Lister!! Would love it as part of an off grid system I'm planning but the dBa would exceed the neighbours patience I think
    Don't write it off too quickly. There are many ways of silencing one of these master pieces. Most of the noise is from the exhaust. Route that into a burried 44 gallon drum with some bricks or heaps of chicken wire inside does wonders. A little bit of work in the intake and they almost run silent. Searching throu youtube will find you many examples.
    One thing I know that kills the old Lister is running too cold. They should have included a thermostat in the cooling system, probably on the inlet like most engines are these days. Keep the head and block hot.
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 2nd August 2016 at 12:05 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Emmaville NSW
    Posts
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    Re: TS2 Lister on Biodiesel 10 years

    MMM, looks like we lost my last post, it was referred to the moderator for some reason.
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 2nd August 2016 at 12:05 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
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    Re: TS2 Lister on Biodiesel 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Bush Mechanic View Post
    MMM, looks like we lost my last post, it was referred to the moderator for some reason.
    I haven't seen any moderated posts today.
    Please try posting it again.
    Regards,
    Tony

    PS.I have moved this discussion to it's own thread.
    Last edited by Tony From West Oz; 2nd August 2016 at 12:07 AM. Reason: I have moved this discussion to it's own thread.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Emmaville NSW
    Posts
    6

    Re: TS2 Lister on Biodiesel 10 years

    Yes thanks, good idea for the new thread and apologies to all if it seemed as though I hijacked the other topic.

    When I hit the 'Post quick reply ' button I got a 'popup' saying it was referred to the moderator, dunno.

    Bugger, now I'm trying to remember what I posted .

    Ah yes, with regard to the valves I guess it is a chicken and egg situation as I'm not qualified to say either way, as for maintenance they are particularly methodical with servicing, oil, filters, etc.( but about mechanically minded as a Koala for anything else.)

    The same applies to their fuel production with her having been an industrial chemist, not sure of the exact process but it involves filtering, methanol and potassium hydroxide.

    Unfortunately the parts have been sent for repair and no pics sorry.

    The loads applied to the genset are only for battery charging when there is inclement weather, which I think would apply to most gensets in an offgrid situation.

    I have a lister LD1 'startomatic' 1500W as backup for this very same reason and also a cheapy Chinese 7500W petrol that is used for mig welder, compressor and other heavy loads.

    Qwarla, I found the most noise on my LD1 was from induction, I replaced the original oil bath filter with a Donaldson type with a longer induction pipe and the noise reduction was incredible.

    Harvey, the bores did not appear to be glazed and there was considerable 'carbon' buildup on the sides of the pistons which gave the initial impression of no lateral movement of the pistons in the bores, we will wait to see the results from the engineering shop with regard to piston wear.

    Peter

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    39

    Red face Re: TS2 Lister on Biodiesel 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwarla View Post
    Don't write it off too quickly. There are many ways of silencing one of these master pieces. Most of the noise is from the exhaust. Route that into a burried 44 gallon drum with some bricks or heaps of chicken wire inside does wonders. A little bit of work in the intake and they almost run silent. Searching throu youtube will find you many examples.
    One thing I know that kills the old Lister is running too cold. They should have included a thermostat in the cooling system, probably on the inlet like most engines are these days. Keep the head and block hot.
    Thankyou Qwarla
    I have reviewed relevant youtube and yes very happy to find means of quietening these crude beautiful stationary engines!!
    Harvey
    1983 BJ42 Landcruiser
    1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Emmaville NSW
    Posts
    6

    Re: TS2 Lister on Biodiesel 10 years

    Well got it back together today, new standard pistons and rings, cylinders were just honed, new injectors and they replaced 2 valves.

    Purring like a kitten now and when the load was applied it didn't miss a beat.

    Started straight up on bio diesel and no smoke.

    Peter

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