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Thread: Drying WVO

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    281

    Re: Drying WVO

    etI remember reading about using quick lime CaO calcium oxide to assist in making methoxide in methanol solution. The idea was that when sodium or potassium hydroxide reacts/ dissolves in dry methanol to form methoxide plus water, that the calcium oxide would react with the water to form calcium hydroxide. Calcium forms two bonds , so calcium hydroxide is HOCaOH one hydrogen from the water bonds with the one oxygen in calcium oxide the hydroxide left from HOH, H two O, dihydrogen oxide, one oxygen bonded to two hydrogens, Subtract one hydrogen atom from two hydrogen atoms plus one oxygen atom bonded to each other, that leaves one hydrogen atom bonded to one oxygen atom and the oxygen atom forms two bonds, one to hydrogen, one to calcium. So the hydroxide functional group bonds to the other side of the calcium atom from where the oxygen in calcium oxide was. The water no longer exists. It was broken into two pieces. But there is an equilibrium. Calcium oxide will not dry ethanol perfectly. I believe calcium oxide will only dry 95% ethanol to 99.5%. Then the dried (commercial anhydrous) ethanol may be distilled off in a special distillation set up. So in making methoxide with caustic solid, removing the water produced from the reaction of sodium hydroxide and methanol is removing a chemical from the right side of the reaction equation, water. Water decomposes methoxide. The more water present the less methoxide can exist. Using Calcium Oxide to remove water from the solution causes the equilibrium to shift to the right, the products side of the equation . The less water the better. Drying the sodium or potassium hydroxide prior to making the methoxide in methanol solution as I described previously probably would improve what someone called The Imisides Method. I'm not sure Mark imisides actually produced that process completely by himself. I suppose that doesn't matter it's in the public domaine to be post on the internet. Dry the solid caustic in an oven at 160 degrees centigrade. Let it cool . With a metal screwdriver break up the solid caustic. Dissolve in dry methanol. Then if you care to add enough calcium oxide. That might increase the concentration in methanol of methoxide, but them there's the calcium soap produced that might be a problem. Calcium oxide does not completely perfectly dry alcohol solutions.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    York UK
    Posts
    117

    Re: Drying WVO

    I found the results I did a year ago. KOH methoxide was 3.12% water. After adding an excess of CaO and left to settle the water content was 0.42% These tests were done using Trinity reclaimed methanol with a water content of 2600ppm.

    The concentration of methoxide used for the test was 50gms KOH in 400mls of Methanol.
    Last edited by smithy; 20th December 2016 at 02:53 AM.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    281

    Re: Drying WVO

    The concentration of methoxide used for the test was 50gms KOH in 400mls of Methanol. There is an equilibrium. Tilly said the remainer of the pertcentage of 85% or 90 % KOH is water. Water decomposes methoxide. The production of methoxide from Hydroxide ion plucking the hydrogen off methanol to produce methoxide ion is not 100% it's not quantitative. I've reqognized a method to dry caustic solid in the absence of carbon dioxide from the air adding to the hot potassium or sodium hydroxide, In a laboratory appartus. Weigh a single neck round bottom flask, add sodium or potassium hydroxide reweigh. Set up a vaccuum still. With a heating mantle heat the caustic hot to possibly over 200 degrees centigrade. Pull a strong vaccuum on the caustic during heating. Heating it hotter probably wouldn't hurt. It will frost the inside of the heat shock resistant lab glass flask. After heating maybe 30 minutes or an hour allow the flask to cool, then reweigh. I've got the equipment to do this, I just haven't done it yet. Starting with drier caustic solid would be better in making biodiesel.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,182

    Re: Drying WVO

    Wesley, Looking forward to your test results.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


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  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,182

    Re: Drying WVO

    I have moved some posts from this topic "Drying WVO" to a new thread "Drying NaOH" to make the subject match the discussion.
    All posts on this topic should now be related to Drying WVO.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    45

    Re: Drying WVO

    Dear Brains Trust
    I'm looking at solar heating my wvo to assist drying, utilising some black irrigation pipe as solar collector, little dc pump and solar panel to circulate water, and utilise an aircon evaporator coil from an old split aircon for the heat transfer into the oil. With the coil being copper pipe with aluminium fins, dropped into a 200 litre steel drum of oil I wonder as to any problems such as polymerisation (which I'm not scientific enough to understand). ???
    Kind regards Harvey
    Harvey
    1983 BJ42 Landcruiser
    1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,182

    Re: Drying WVO

    Great idea. By circulating water, you overcome the biggest disadvantage of plumbing WVO systems - Leaks are a PITA to clean up. Water has a higher specific heat than oil and a lower viscosity, so it makes sense to move the heat from the collector to the oil using water.
    The dissimilar metals in contact with moist WVO could facilitate corrosion of the aluminum / copper.
    I have used copper pipes in my early WVO conversion and it did not seem to impact on the oil at all. I did note that the copper pipe, where it was submerged in the oil was bright clean copper. The copper which never was submerged in WVO did get a verdigris coating.
    I have not used aluminum in WVO at all so cannot comment there.

    Another option is to use a plate heat exchanger (MPHE - SS ones are readily available) and a second DC pump to circulate the oil thru it.
    You could also consider getting some SS pipe and having it bent to suit your oil heating vessel. That way you minimise any chances of reaction occurring, the oil remains in the heating vessel and the water cannot get into the oil. A Win - Win situation and much cheaper than a MPHE.

    Please post photos of your progress and some numbers to show how well it works.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Posts
    281

    Re: Drying WVO

    Heating/drying waste vegetable oil with solar assisted power. On cloudy days not much would occur. Several mirrors reflecting light from the sun onto metal tubing with water slowly circulating through it would be good. I recall seeing a photograph of the very stylish solar energy cells on the roof of the White House while Obama was President of the United States. I expect the first time a big hail storm occurred those solar cells were smahed and the money to put them there was wasted. I don't know if you all have occassional hail storms there, but if you do it might smash glass solar reflector mirrors and solar electric cells.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,182

    Re: Drying WVO

    Wesley,
    We have a large solar array on our home and have has several heavy hail storms. There has been no damage to the panels from hail, despite some large hail in recent years, even on our old 17 year old panels.
    Solar panels are designed to withstand very high impact events. Not bullets though - they will cause significant damage.
    You might look up Brisbane in your atlas. There is no need for mirrors to help the solar heating or power generation on most days.

    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    45

    Re: Drying WVO

    Hi Wesley
    My design has a few simple requirements:
    Total cost less than $60 (cheap irrigation pipe, Ebay pump and panel ala China, scavenged copper for heat exchanger).
    As I collect oil I place it in my 200lt cone bottom reactor, over time it settles most of the water and crud out. Then I usually heat it with a 3.6kw heater for about 3hrs to 95C, and spray it across a fan. On frypan bubble test I get no bubbles.
    I'm just looking at reducing my 3hr electric heat time. If it's cloudy for a week, it's ok as I have time, being a low consumption fuel baron of only 40-50lt/week.
    Thank you for your valued input to the forum.
    Harvey
    1983 BJ42 Landcruiser
    1997 C250TD Mercedes-Benz

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