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Thread: Engine fuelling issues

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    214

    Engine fuelling issues

    Having been a forum member for going 4 years now, I am somewhat reluctant to add this post to the ever growing pile of others I have seen on the subject. But here goes.

    My Rodeo is having very intermittent - but increasing in frequency - fuel issues. I think this has happened on about 4 separate occasions in the last 6 months. 2 in the last week.

    The symptoms similar to having air in the fuel system:
    • Vehicle won't idle unless you rev it up
    • Runs rough when revving it up
    • Blows sh!tloads of smoke
    • Has basically no power, but enough to maintain walking pace on a flat grade, but not enough to get up a minor hill


    The first time it happened, I replaced the fuel filter with no result - filter looked fine on the inside. I then opened the water/sediment bowl and found it chock full of sh!t. I cleaned it out and had no more problems for maybe 6 months or more.

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    The other day it happened again and I was able to resolve it with a good old 'Italian Tune-up' i.e. revving the hell out of it until it sorted itself out (and fumigating any nearby pedestrians and almost stopping traffic with the resultant smoke cloud....the American Rollin' Coal enthusiasts would've been proud)

    I then checked the water/sediment trap again and it had a little bit of cr@p in the bottom, but nowhere near as bad as the photos above. Cleaned it again and was fine for another week or so.

    I did an IP / injector clean with LiquiMoly Diesel Purge (see YouTube) and didn't see any crud in the final wash of that.

    It happened again this morning and was maybe the worst one yet. Again it was resolved after a few minutes with some good old-fashioned flooring and a massive smoke show. I tried engaging my little clacktey-clack Facet pump but it made no difference.

    If it was an air leak, it wouldn't resolve itself, right? And the Facet pump quickly primes the system once it has air in it from, say, a filter change.

    If it was fuel starvation, I wouldn't get the huge clouds of smoke (unburnt fuel), right?

    I'm a bit worried that the inside of my IP may look like the toothbrush above, but the LiquiMoly should have dissolved at least some of that for me to see in the return fluid.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by 3DB; 8th February 2017 at 07:04 PM.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,176

    Re: Engine fuelling issues

    It is unlikely that Liquid Moly would move the tarry byproduct from using unwashed biodiesel.

    You could try several other solvents (mixed with fuel) to see if they help.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    214

    Re: Engine fuelling issues

    I have always thought I take good care making my fuel. I always wash it 3 or 4 times until it passes the shake-up test and do the 27-3 on it before it gets to the wash stage. And yet I have been noticing that tarry stuff gradually building up on the bottom of my cubies, which are now approaching 4 years old.

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    I noticed that carby cleaner worked pretty well on the stuff inside the water/sed trap the first time and more recently I used brake cleaner and it instantly dissolved it. I have been wondering how I might get a can of Brakleen through my IP. Perhaps they sell it in non-aerosol form to use in atomiser spray bottles? Might be worth a look. Pump it through with the Facet pump.

    I recall others using acetone.
    Last edited by 3DB; 8th February 2017 at 08:51 PM.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,151

    Re: Engine fuelling issues

    Yep, same here but I clean my cubbies before using them again. Very hot water, glycerine and a good shaking. Rinse and dry.
    Remember when you had no power b4 DB? This time instead of adjusting the smoke screw, measure exactly how far it sticks out with a venier caliper, record measurement then remove it. The gunk or lack of gunk on the last 15mm of the screw will give you an indication of the state of the inside of the IP. If it is bad you could remove the top cover of the pump and have another look. It can be put back on with care, while still on the engine, if it looks shocking you know you are up for removal and cleaning. Another cause could be the return banjo is blocked, so any air which is trapped can't be purged. Revving the engine increases the internal pump pressure to the max, possibly forcing any air out. Take it out and check it.
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 170,000km on WVO,(2017) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids. Mk. 9 version. Improvements under investigation

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    numurkah
    Posts
    552

    Re: Engine fuelling issues

    If you have a rotary pump, it is proably the vanes on the lift pump sticking, Ive had this a couple of times on my estima, and sticky crap in the filter. I came to the conclusion that the bio was striping the coating off the estimas fuel tank and making a mess in the filters and pump, as my three other vehicles did not give me this problem.
    you can have a read here and how i fixed it without removing the pump.
    http://www.biofuelsforum.com/threads/10599-toyota-estima-wont-rev?highlight=estima

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
    Posts
    2,007

    Re: Engine fuelling issues

    Diesel Purge- MSDS
    http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/DieselPurgeLM2005.pdf

    Notice you that over half of what is in the container is just diesel fuel- a very expensive way to buy diesel

    DIESEL FUEL CAS# 68476-34-6 ≤65%
    2-ETHYLHEXYL NITRATE CAS#27247-96-7 (Cetane improver) ≤25%
    PETROLEUM DISTILLATES CAS#64742-54-7 ≤10%
    1,2,4-TRIMETHYLBENZENE 95-63-6 ≤1%

    I would spend my money on something else

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    214

    Re: Engine fuelling issues

    Tilly -point taken on the LiquiMoly. I figured that might be the case but also that $19 could be a small price to pay for a good result. Mercedes guru, Kent Bergsma, raves about the stuff. Maybe he might also hold the distribution rights for the state of Washington..?

    JJ - good stuff also. Will check.

    SmithW - excellent thread on the Estima. Must've missed that one. I just bought a can of acetone so will try cycling that thru with my little Facet pump and see what comes out the other end.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    214

    Re: Engine fuelling issues

    So yesterday arvo I pumped 500mL of acetone thru the IP with the Facet and it came out basically clean. No sign of any contaminants. Stupidly, I didn't think to bypass the filter & water trap first, so the acetone got pretty diluted by the bio still in the system.

    In the process, the Facet pump died. And it got me wondering whether it might have been on the way out for a while and possibly the source of my problems as it has been sitting inline for about 12 months now - not running unless needed for priming - but with fuel flowing through it continuously.

    Towards the end it wouldn't move anything. I couldn't prove my theory because I couldn't tell whether the IP could still pull through it though as I got air in the system and had no way to prime it without the pump. You see, when my water trap got badly clogged with the tarry stuff about 6 months ago, I had to remove the non-return flaps (can't remember if there are one or 2) on the inlet /outlet as it just wouldn't work with them in place (gummed up also I suppose). I didn't consider it a drama as I had the pump. But of course the pump died so I have no way to prime.

    Fortunately I was able to borrow another pump from Timorcoco while I wait for a new one. Got it primed this morning and seems to be running fine for now.

    Here are some questions though:

    1. My fuel filter copped a good slug of acetone in the process above. Do you think it might melt the glue inside and cause it to fail? Should I whack a new one on to be safe? It is only about 2,000 km old.
    2. What are your thoughts on adding the residual acetone to the fuel tank next time I fill up, to give a dilute wash of the system over the next 400 km or so?
    3. What are your feelings on the solvent qualities of unleaded petrol on the tarry substance? Would it be worth throwing a dash in to my next tank of fuel? If worthwhile, what is a safe ratio of ULP:bio?


    I've got a 2,000 km round trip coming up next week so I want to make sure I'm as prepared as I can be. Fingers crossed it was just the little facet pump that was the problem. I will do as much test driving as I can between now and then.

    Not great having 2 cars that don't run! The Merc is out with master cylinder issues and a frozen ignition....this is after losing a brake caliper bolt on the Harbour Bridge at Xmas! How much was that Camry Hybrid again, Tony?
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,176

    Re: Engine fuelling issues

    You are having fun, aren't you?
    You should be able to get a Camry Hybrid for around $11,000, but it will not run on Bio!

    It does make sense that the facet valves could be gummed up. I believe that they can be dismantled to access the valves and pumping element, but it is a long time ago and may not have been that brand of pump that I dismantled. There is nothing to lose from trying to repair it.

    If you can get a sample of the "tarry stuff" you should be able to check out a few solvents to see whether you can find something that works on it. If you do find something, please let us know.

    IF I had all the answers, I would be charging for my advice (LOL) but:
    1. Replace the filter, it is cheap insurance against cr@p getting into the IP.
    2. Did the acetone do any good in the IP or Facet pump? - If not I doubt it would have any impact at a significantly reduced concentration
    3. I wouldn't recommend any more than 10% ULP in summer, probably 5% would be enough. Whether it works on the "tarry stuff" or not, I will wait to hear from you.
    Methanol may be another solvent to try on the "tarry stuff"

    Tony
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    TWBA
    Posts
    149

    Re: Engine fuelling issues

    Hi 3DB,
    back to basics, remove the facet pump out of the equation, go to Bunnings and get some clear hose. The IP is strong enough to suck bio from the tank so having a lift pump is not needed,even doing filter changes you should be able to hand prime. Check for any air entering the IP and also if any air is exiting the IP. Monitor your oil levels incase IP seal is leaking and facet pump is compensating.
    I've used ATF to run through my IP and injectors. I use about 500ml in a bottle and put the suction in this,I put the return line in a seperate bottle so as to catch the bio. Intermittent problems suck but check all your hose connections/clamps from tank suction to return lines and all o rings in your filter housing.
    Pressure test your filter housing , this is easily done with a bike pump .
    Mate hope you resolve your problem
    Cheers
    96 Dual Cab Rodeo B100% since Jan 2011

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