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Thread: Beginner question about injectors and pumps

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    Melbourne
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    Beginner question about injectors and pumps

    Hi everyone,

    I have asked a similar question to this before-

    two mechanics have now stressed to me how bad vege oil is for injectors and pumps.

    Is this peoples experience?

    My set up is twin tank- diesel and veg and starting and ending in diesel.

    One of these mechanics said that veg oil isn't lubricating enough?! : /



    Can anyone explain to me longevity re pumps/injectors and how others work around this?

    Do people replace injectors and pumps often? Pumps are about $1500 to replace...

    Do people use a separate veg/diesel pump?

    My car has just died and I am trying not to be swayed to non veg but am feeling a little tired of car drama. ergh
    Anj

    P.s: just noticed the title error! which now can't be edited haha
    Last edited by AnjMelbs; 15th February 2017 at 05:14 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,075

    Re: Beginner question about injectors and pumps

    What experience do these mechanics have with diesels running on vegetable oil? Most likely they have heard of someone who had a minor issue and it has been repeated over and over again, increasing in severity each time. Apart from issues caused by the viscosity of the fuel (small fuel lines are fine for diesel but cause some restriction for veggie), I have had no problems with the injector pumps of our vehicles, caused by using veggie oil.

    I have had issues with biodiesel fuel which resulted in an accumulation of byproduct in the fuel tank which worked its way into the IP and caused it to bind and stop injecting fuel. I now wash my biodiesel and decant the biodiesel into containers which sit for at least a week before being used to refuel my car. I do not drain the containers and shake the 500ml or so of fuel remaining in it to pick up any byproduct remaining in the container. This is poured into another container and allowed to settle again. Once the container is full, I decant off the biodiesel, into my refueling container.

    Since using this method, I have had no further issues with biodiesel.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    Toyota Camry Hybrid - (Wife's Car)

    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]



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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    ลึก ประเทศอินเด&
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    1,916

    Re: Beginner question about injectors and pumps

    Some Injector Pumps are more suitable than others when using for an SVO system.
    http://www.doctordiesel.co.uk/

    "Delphi Lucas/CAV, DPC Radial Plunger Pump
    Feb 2007

    Made by a number of Companies under Licence, The DPC fuel pump may be named CAV, Lucas, Lucas/CAV, and RotoDiesel
    This pump was Lucas/CAV answer to the Bosch EPVE above, and is found in the same sort of application. Quite often, the vehicle maker will use both the Bosch EPVE and the Lucas DPC on the same model in their range.
    It is still fitted to certain new vehicles, a tribute to the design, as it complies with the new emission regulations in force, needing only detail changes The basic design has been around since the fifties in various versions, such as the DPA and DPS.

    Unfortunately, these otherwise excellent pumps are not well suited to the high viscosity Vegetable oil, and can fail without warning, especially if unheated oils, or the pump is cold when Vegetable oil is used.
    The usual mode of failure is seizing of the distributor rotor in the hydraulic head, causing the rotor driveshaft to shear. Due to the cost of the affected components, the pump can then be considered unrepairable.
    However, there are many of these pumps giving good service on Vegetable oil, but nearly always where a two-tank set up with additional fuel heating. The fuel changeover to Vegetable oil only when the pump is completely warmed up.
    The pump is purged by standard diesel prior to shut down so diesel is present in the pump for the next cold start.
    The above method of use should be considered mandatory with this make, (and even then, the pump may still fail) unless internal modifications have been carried out to improve rotor lubrication."

    Last edited by tillyfromparadise; 15th February 2017 at 08:31 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern Sydney
    Posts
    477

    Re: Beginner question about injectors and pumps

    Anj

    I used to run a 2.8 3L hilux on a 2 tank system. starting on deso/biodeso then when the motor was upto heat, switch over to veg oil, which was cold filtered then stored for months, as I had a very good supply and lots of storage drums. I ran 2 heat exchangers in my system to allow max heating of the oil. I ran this system for near on 10 years before sell my ol girl, due to my kids growing up and needing more space in the back... in that time I changed my injectors once, and swapped a pump twice. the first time for the pump, was NOT due to veg oil or bio fuels, it was due to mechanical failure of a small part where the chroming came of and went thru the pump shredding seals and causing blockages. the 2nd time was due to the front seal failing, again NOT due to veg or bio fuels. if you keep on top of what you are doing in regards to quality control of your input fuels, the pump and injectors will last...be very meticulous with starting and shut down procedures.
    use the KISS principles, and you'll be right... the mechanics you talk about, probably heard from someone who used biodeso and had their fuel filters clogged up with dead fuel algae, as this is the most common causes of people saying DONT use bio fuels.

    when I started down the oily road, and after the first pump shitting itself, I made the decision to strip out the fuel tank, clean it and the fuel lines, installing new filters and setting up a complete new fuel line just for the veg oil. I never suffered any fuel blockages after that. every 5 thous kays, I would change motor oil and filter, and I would also do the fuel filters, I ran Delphi style filters and at around 3.50 a filter, it was good insurance, especially as this was my everyday driver and I would go hunting often, or drag my boat down to Eden or up beyond Newcastle regularly.

    I stopped doing the oily thing about 2 yrs ago now, as my new truck, a Prado Grande is not the right sort of truck to be carrying oil cans around in the back, and besides, I gave it a good run, I am still trying to clean up oil stains from the area of operations, LOL,....

    hope that helps ya..
    if it's FERAL, it's in PERIL.

    i too belong to P.E.T.A.
    people eating tasty animals.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    19

    Re: Beginner question about injectors and pumps

    ahhh yes starting and ending on diesel! ha. how silly. thank you
    Last edited by AnjMelbs; 15th February 2017 at 05:13 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    19

    Re: Beginner question about injectors and pumps

    @Tony from WestOz - yeah you are right- they probably have very little experience with this kind of fuel. I am in the same category really and am just trying to understand any risks.

    Thanks for your feedback : )

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