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Thread: 1hz injector pump rebuild

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    214

    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Farmerpete - I agree with the other comments here, for what it is worth:

    • Rebuilding injectors is unlikely to help. If you really want to go down that route, try Reliable Diesel in Engadine NSW (ph: 02 9548 2380). He quoted for around $35/injector + nozzles to rebuild the ones in my Merc;
    • Check that internal IP filter(s) if it has one;
    • Get rid of the Facet pump if you can, or try a new one. That was my problem in the recent thread titled "Engine fuelling issues". After exactly 2 years of operation my Facet pump failed and wasn't allowing the IP to suck fuel through intermittently. I only ever ran my Facet when I needed to prime, but it sat idle the whole time in 'neutral' allowing the vane pump in the IP to pull fuel through normally. Whatever happened to it (haven't had a chance to pull apart yet), it was somehow blocking the supply line intermittently. I identified this by using the Facet to push solvent (acetone & brake cleaner) through the IP while the engine was off. I noticed that it worked for a while as I could see the return fluid coming out the return line. Then the the flow through the return line stopped even though the Facet pump was still running. Now that I've replaced it, I'm having no dramas. I can't 100% verify this was the problem as I did use the cleaning solvent and also added 5% unleaded petrol to my mix. One of those 3 things worked and my feeling is that it was the Facet pump.
    • If you have no luck with a new Facet, try the solvents. Acetone was the main one I used but I would also give auto trans fluid (Dexron III or whatever is cheapest) a go. Pop the supply line in the the solvent and the return line in a clean, clear plastic PET bottle and see what comes out. I had a bit of fine sediment in the bottom of mine, but nothing major. Clean both hoses before you put them in so as not to contaminate either sample.
    • I also recommend bypassing your sediment/water trap and fuel filter before doing this.
    • And that leads me to the next point - if your no-return flaps in the water trap are gummed up, this could also be a problem. I removed mine, which is why I now need the Facet to prime. However, I will look into Johnnojack's vacuum prime method in the aforementioned thread as a better alternative.


    Best of luck.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Cowra nsw
    Posts
    42

    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    The facet pump is about 6 weeks old.
    Up until some weeks ago it was making the ute almost run like her old self
    I removed the return pipe from back of the injector pump and indeed the small gauze filter was clagged up. Cleaned out and the return line now has a clear flow of diesel in it.
    The facet pump may well be stuffed. I'll take it off and try running without it again.
    There are no air bubbles in the line between the facet pump to the filter to the engine BUT before the facet was installed I was always finding air between the filter and the pump.
    I couldn't see where they were entering unless I put a GoPro camera under the hood
    I have hooked up a new fuel hose straight from the fuel tank to the water trap fuel filter.This bypasses about 8 hose clamps and 4 or 5 sections of old fuel hose and fuel pipe.
    Filters are new
    Couldn't see a vane pump behind the return line outlet
    So back out to the ute to play again
    Last edited by farmerpete; 23rd February 2017 at 03:03 PM. Reason: correction

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Cowra nsw
    Posts
    42

    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    ok Picture this scene... 20 litre drum diesel on a step ladder about 1.2 metres above the injector pump ie good positive feed
    Use toyota primary filter (without prime pump) between drum and injector pump. This filter has good free flow of fuel from positive feed source ( hand primed filter had no free flow)
    Clear fuel lines ... no bubbles anywhere.
    max revs 1600
    facet pump on return line lowered rpm slightly when turned on ...better when turned off
    clear line from injector pump to facet pump on return line
    when facet pump running in this configuration AIR in clear return line out of injector pump
    tightened banjo bolt on return line back of pump no change in bubbles...removed return line from injectors to banjo bolt and blocked small pipe with finger no change on bubbles ( noted no flow from injector overflow tube...injectors must be really bad )
    All this was done at 1600 rpm
    Noted that fuel is free flowing very slightly ( gravity ) through injector pump into return line tank with engine off
    Noted with engine off sucking on return line from pump to mouth draws fuel and good amount of air at same time
    Clear hose on return line is v tight clamped
    Thoughts ??

    3DB ...push acetone metho etc through injector pump with facet pump?
    Last edited by farmerpete; 23rd February 2017 at 05:54 PM. Reason: ?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    1,151

    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by tillyfromparadise View Post
    I assume yo have replaced the fuel filters?

    Also checked the filter screen in the IP

    Pete you won't see the vane pump through any inlet or outlet on the IP. Note the schematic drawing posted by Tilly is just that, schematic. The vane pump (feed pump) and the timer piston are both at 90 deg to what the drawing shows. Note the blue coloured filter label, some pumps have a filter under the shut off valve, this could be blocked. With a non turbo IP ou may be able to remove it easily, worth checking. If there is no screen filter there there could be one at the entrance to the head (cast iron lump on end) position is where the arrow opposite the blue arrow is. This is inside the pump and would require a strip down to access. If your pump makes air then it does sound like the front seal. However by putting a suction pump on the return it is an unnatural condition so seal could be OK. Have you checked the regulator valve? You do need a special tool to get it out as it has 2 flat side and 2 round sides. I have made one from 2 old 3/8 sockets. If the seals ( O rings) are gonefrom using bio you will lose pump pressure and revs/ power, exactly what is happening. Good luck you'll fix it.
    Johnnojack
    4WD Isuzu Jackaroo 3.1 170,000km on WVO,(2017) 2 tank home built system 6 solenoids. Mk. 9 version. Improvements under investigation

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Townsville, North Queensland
    Posts
    621

    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by farmerpete View Post
    ( noted no flow from injector overflow tube...injectors must be really bad )
    All this was done at 1600 rpm

    It looks to me that you are trying to convince yourself your injectors are stuffed.
    Picture this-
    IP is sending an amount of fuel to each injector. It can go two places.
    1. Into the engine and be burnt producing power.
    2. Out the overflow tube and return to the fuel tank.

    Now you have no, or very little overflow and very low on power. What does this suggest to you?
    To me it says you are not getting enough fuel delivered to your injectors.
    If you have had the engine running as described, everything on your vehicle has been bypassed except the IP. So the problem has to be within the IP.

    The vein pump will not be visible through the return banjo bolt hole. It's usually down the front near where the IP bolts to the engine.
    The fact that the screen in this hole was clogged with crud must tell you something.
    it tells me that your filter system has had a failure and let crud into your IP.
    If you study the diagrams further back up this thread you will discover something that may help you. Marked in big blue letters.
    On most IPs there is a sintered filter between the IP pumps body and the high pressure head. Sometimes under the fuel shut off solenoid.

    All the fuel that gets sent to the injectors has to pass through this filter.
    Since there is/was crud in your IP it is a fair bet this other filter copped a fair bit as well and is very restricted.

    If I was a gambling man I'd put up $20.00 saying this is your problem.
    Last edited by Qwarla; 23rd February 2017 at 07:23 PM.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    214

    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Some good information coming out in this thread. We need someone with a flowchart builder to put it all in as a reference sticky to save it all being written out again in a few weeks time when the next person has this problem.

    It makes a lot of sense to start with the simplest, most obvious & cheapest troubleshooting techniques first and progress to the harder, more expensive ones if they don't work.

    At this point hunting for that filter screen makes a lot of sense and it will be the next thing I investigate if my problem comes back again. My Zexel IP does not have one under the inlet banjo. I never found one when I was fiddling around a couple of years ago to try to increase the power, but I can't remember whether I removed the cut-off solenoid.

    Anyway, it may be worth consulting Capataincademan as he is the other guy with a 1HZ that immediately comes to mind and it seems like he would know the location of that screen on your vehicle. Hopefully it is easy to get at without removing the IP from the vehicle or having to remove other stuff.

    Regarding the acetone flush - yes, I used my Facet pump to do that with the engine off. I don't know how your engine would go if you pumped it at high concentration through the injectors while running, but I think I got a least a bit burned through mine when I re-started. I cannot say that the acetone won't kill your Facet pump either. Mine died before I finished a full 500 mL flush, but it seems like it was probably already on its last legs.
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sydney, NSW
    Posts
    214

    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Sorry - completely overlooked the air in return line issue in my response above.

    If if you remove the Facet pump from the equation and run the engine do you still get air in the return line?
    3DB
    1995 Holden (Isuzu) Rodeo 2.8TD 4X4 - B100 since April 2013
    1976 Mercedes 300D Turbo 'The Coal Grenade' - B100 since May 2016
    (@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    4,176

    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    You said previously that adding the Facet fuel pump restored engine performance - for a while.
    That indicates that the problem lies within the IP.
    You have a few of choices:
    1. Have the pump cleaned and checked, or
    2. Source a second hand pump to suit your engine from a wreckers.
    3. Have a go at dismantling and cleaning your IP yourself.
    Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

    Current Vehicles in stable:
    '06 Musso Sports Crew Cab. Running on used cooking oil with 5% to 10% misfuel.
    '2014 Toyota Prius (on ULP)


    Previous Vehicles:
    '90 Mazda Capella. (2000 - 2003) My first Fatmobile. Converted to fun on veggie oil with a 2 tank setup. Died when supercharger stuck at max boost for weeks. Stretched head bolts.
    '80 Mercedes 300D. 2 tank conversion [Sold]
    '84 Mercedes 300D. 1 tank, no conversion. Replaced engine with rebuilt OM617A turbodiesel engine. Finally had good power. Donor for current Fatmobile coupe. (body parted out and carcass sold for scrap.)
    '99 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car)[sold]
    '98 Mercedes W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car)[sold]
    Parts Car C220 1993 SOLD.
    '85 Mercedes Benz W123 300CD Turbodiesel single tank using 95% used cooking oil and 5% to 10% misfuel (where someone had filled diesel vehicle with petrol).


    Searching the Biofuels Forum using Google
    Adding images and/or documents to your posts


  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Cowra nsw
    Posts
    42

    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Qwarla ... you the man !!!! and Tilly , 3DB etc

    I used google pictures and went to the web pages of multo problems involving no power / smoking 1hz engines
    So one bloke did what I did...checked the filter screen in the injector pump inlet and couldn't see one but he went down in the hole about 60 mm with a piece of wire with a hook on the end and found one
    So did I... and found one. I did look at some stage previously but didn't really know what I was looking for
    Pulled it out with a twisted picky thing and blocked to buggery. Its built of delicate fine s/s mesh
    Cleaned out with SCA degreasing spray and a .22 calibre soft nylon barrel brush. It had no plastic base so left crap at bottom of hole.
    Fortunately the fuel intake down that hole is about 2 cm off the bottom so sucked out out the contents thru a small plastic hose by mouth.
    Back flushed with gravity thru the return line with diesel to make sure its all clean and sucked out again
    Back together with the external fuel tank on the ladder and no facet pump attached
    No bubbles ....
    4500 rpm and black smoke
    ...that made for a big smile. Didn't check for air bubbles in the return line.
    Still need to check for air leaks as I put the fuel system back together to find what is allowing air in
    I took some photos will post soon
    Thanks to ewes all for your inputs.
    I just realised the engine probably hasn't revved to max for 7 or 8 years because this was developing slowly

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Townsville, North Queensland
    Posts
    621

    Re: 1hz injector pump rebuild

    Quote Originally Posted by farmerpete View Post
    Qwarla ... you the man !!!! and Tilly , 3DB etc

    4500 rpm and black smoke
    I bet that gave you that 'warm n fuzzy feeling'.
    Nothing better than poking about and fixing the problem yourself and saving yourself a packet.
    Big scary things them IPs. But if it's stuffed, playing with it won't do any more damage and sometimes ya just get lucky and fix it.

    Somewhere along the way your filters must have let some crud slip past. This can happen bio melts all the glue holding the element together, or just a small part of the glue and makes for a small hole.
    But now you know where to look next time.

    Good work.

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